Thousands to Join "Restore the Fourth" Protests Against NSA Spying

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Juan Rivera

1. We stop Prism or any similar activities then...
2. Breakup the intermingling of the NSA, FBI, CIA, Military,and local authorities then.....

3. We get bombed, nuked, poisoned, again, and again losing thousands of lives which most likely wont affect you. Then.....

4. We blame our real patriots the FBI, CIA, NSA, Military, local authorities, Politician and President Obama for not protecting us. Again.

This is the pattern that will happen over and over again because of the 4th amendment nuts. It wont matter to you until it happens to you.

Freedom is great. Liberties are great. I get the feeling most of the crazy 4th amendment folks are just flat out anarchists and wish for nothing more than every man for himself.

There really seems to be no balance on this now. If they really have stopped so many attacks than so be it. I can stand to lose a slight bit of liberties. After all I have served my country and know full well the sacrifices that our men and women make every day.

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MaximumMike

There are slippery slope arguments. And then there's what you just said.

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Mungo

There are scarier things to worry about then the NSA data mining to see who's been calling Waziristan.

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miked6875

Yea! Your right, Like losing our freedom.

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Mungo

The Republicans on the Supreme court just ruled that the 5th ammendment "right to remain silent" is no longer a right.
The recent Salinas v. Texas ruling affirmed by Supreme Court that silence can be used to prove guilt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AARhk-ntz2k

Yet everyone is too busy worrying about gay marriage , immigration reform and NSA data mining to even notice that crime.

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Trooper_One

Mungo: "Yet everyone is too busy worrying about gay marriage , immigration reform and NSA data mining to even notice that crime."

You can add abortion to this list. These issues are all related - it's about human rights, freedom, and presumption of innocence.

They each have merits and citizens of free democracies ought to be vigilant about these issues. From recent news, it looks like the legislative and executive branches want to chip away the liberties of free citizens, their freedom to observe those in charge and the armed.

Be careful, next thing you know, it'll be illegal to discuss this because it might be 'terror' related.

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maverick knight

I am going to be as direct and clear as possible; the government do not spy on the American people. However, the government protect their people by pursuing all enemies of the US, foreign and domestic. The government does everything in its power to abide by the 4th amendment.

On the other hand, the government is composed of US people. People that we have no choice but to trust. My question is, how would the government protect us from us?

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misterz100

This ^^

What the NSA is doing is harmless for now but humans have a knack of going power hungry and all it will take is one bad weed to screw you all over.
People shouldn't be worried about the data mining as much as they should be worried about what the government will do with it.
Politicians for this like Obama are in it to seriously protect their people, whether or not congress the NSA or some of it's members have the same good intention is the problem.

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maverick knight

"This" you mean comment?

"all it will take is one bad weed to screw you all over" like Snowden and Manning just to name a few traitors?

"whether or not congress the NSA or some of it's members have the same good intention is the problem" The NSA, just like every other government agency have Auditors to make sure everyone is doing their job like their are supposed to and to make sure every one abides by the constitution. This is a fact.

Listen, all this "spy on American people"is just a distraction. Snowden is out there trying to make money out of US secrets.

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MaximumMike

If what you're saying is true, then how come the auditors didn't catch Snowden? They're obviously ineffective at protecting our data, so how am I supposed to feel secure just because you bring up their existence? Either the government is purposefully and willfully violating my rights or it is utterly incapable of preventing its agents from violating them. Either way, the spying program is the problem.

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FireGarden

Is it wrong that I don't care? I really have nothing to hide - so I don't worry too much about the US or European governments. Certain other governments would worry me though!

Snowden has wrecked his life for nothing in my view.

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miked6875

When they keep taking your freedom away from you a piece at a time so you don't notice or care,like you have nothing to hide.All of a sudden you have NONE LEFT. Snowden wrecked his life trying to protect the little bit of freedom's we have left. Maybe you don't want to be free but me and a lot of other people do.

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aaronj2906

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/

At least have a look at this. I keep hearing from people who take the "have nothing to hide" mentality. That is the way-wrong position to take.

People who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom, nor security.

Just a suggestion... (you would also do well to know the difference between "right to" and "freedom from").

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FireGarden

Thanks, but I still don't get it. It sounds so much like paranoia to me. I get there will be mistakes made and a tiny minority of people in power will abuse it - but's it's the same with everything. As long as there are laws in place to protect people that are wrongly accused, then there is not much else you can do.

Until we can control human genetics on a world scale and make everybody 'good' - then there needs to be some sort of surveillance to protect the innocent.

"People who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom, nor security." Everything in life is a compromise. Idiots that claim free speech trumps everything annoy me because they don't engage their brain and think how their actions will affect someone else. For example - that priest and the burning of the Qu'ran. Innocent people died because of what he threatened to do. He didn't care - after all, he had his right to 'free speech'.

I don't think we'll ever agree.

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Trooper_One

FireGarden: "As long as there are laws in place to protect people that are wrongly accused, then there is not much else you can do."

That's the problem, there are a lot of times where people have been wrongly accused are still in jail. When was the last time you give a shit about them?

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silverblack

I would think so, yeah, in the being a tad self absorbed sense. There are Muslims and members of the Tea Party who have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide yet have come under government scrutiny. It only takes an error, misinterpretation, or confusing you with someone else to give you financial problems or even trouble boarding a plane.

Not effecting you now? Great, now would be the time to speak up. If you look up the other stories, you'll see it takes a long time for the government to even admit it was wrong.

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Happy

Go on the net and find your congressman's number; call and leave a message that you are pissed and will vote them out of office if they don't shut the NSA's tyrannical violation of the 4th Amendment down. BTW, if a citizen blows the whistle on a BLATANTLY unconstitutional program or law that is being conducted in secret then that whistleblower has not broken the law, he has merely notified the public that the government itself is breaking the most fundamental law of the land (the Constitution). This makes the whistleblower a patriot and a hero, nothing less.

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jgottberg

Even if the NSA said, "You got us... and we hear you. We are stopping the program" - Would anyone REALLY believe the spying would stop??

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wumpus

Anybody think we can teach a sufficient minority to effectively use crypto? Even if the NSA got out of the US-citizen espionage game, there is still Google, China, Microsoft, EU, etc.

That said, maintaining effective crypto is hard. I'd assume that any Windows or Android system is compromised (did they base Android on damn vulnerable linux or something?). You then need real passwords (may the gods help you) and finally manage to find the few programs who avoid screwing the entire chain up.

That said, here's a review of some apps by a crypto prof [tl;dr] Silent Circle and Red Phone seem recommended [/tl;dr]
http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/03/here-come-encryption-apps.html

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Carlidan

Nope. But if showing awareness somehow put safeguards in the way the use the technology. Then I guess it was a good thing.

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Biceps

And I think if we tossed NSA's Clapper in jail for lying to congress (which he has admitted to having done, and is a felony), then we might see some people realizing they don't get to tear up the constitution when it suits them.

We need to hold our government accountable for its actions, or as Gottenberg said, they will just keep doing it in secret. At this point, I think there is a strong argument for putting several senior government officials in prison. During the Regan era, the Iran-Contra scandal led to several members of Reagan's team getting tossed in jail for lying to congress, we need to do the same.

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miked6875

Thank You.

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lindethier

Completely agree with this.

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jgottberg

You are absolutely right about Clapper. If anyone else (outside of big government) did that, the book would already be thrown at them courtesy of a drone.