Oracle's Larry Ellison Accuses Google of Acting "Absolutely Evil" in Handling of Android

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ozziekun

Wait, Wait! Oracle is calling Google Evil or calling their practices Evil?! Oracle?! Really?!!

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CaptainFabulous

What's evil is that you have two multi-billionaires fighting over money without giving a rat's ass about the consumer who in the end will ultimately suffer.

Corporations are inherently evil, thru and thru. Some more than others, but it's pretty much all of them.

Hey Oracle the pot, meet Google the kettle.

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The Mac

I think thats a bit of a stretch.

It would be more accurate to say corporations are inherently a-moral.

How their managers choose to operate defines if they are evil.

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jeffroland

What's evil is the absolute nightmare that is Oracle's family of software. I'm not a huge Microsoft fan but installing, implementing databases, and viewing/querying databases, is a hell of a lot easier with SQL Server. The Oracle family has been and still is a mess within a mess. Oracle has had years to develop a user friendly design and interface, and still you need a f'ing degree from Oracle just to find out which version to download and install properly.

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MaximumMike

I disagree. I work in an Oracle environment that processes millions of rows every day from just one client and that handles tables of upwards of 100 million rows. SQL server would roll over and die if it tried to do what we do. You may cry all day about how hard Oracle is to learn, but there's a reason why real databases are written in Oracle. Additionally, Oracle certifications are good for life. MS certs have to be renewed every 3 or 4 years, if not sooner. So, while one may need an education to understand Oracle, one needs several educations to understand Micorsoft's junk.

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MaximumMike

Furthermore, PL/SQL is a hell of a lot more efficient to program in than frickin Visual Basic. And as far as straight SQL goes, Oracle has an entire suite of uber-optimized analytic functions, for which (as far as I know) there is no answer in SQL Server. If you're having trouble querying a database in Oracle, I would strongly suggest that your problem is your aversion to educating yourself.

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dgrmouse

re: MaximumMike

The original poster criticized Oracle for having tools that weren't user-friendly, and you attacked him by calling him uneducated? Your identity is obviously bound too tightly with what you do for you to be an objective judge on the software, but I absolutely agree with the OP that it could be a LOT better. The other Oracle products are even worse. Honestly, Oracle should be thrilled that Google (or anyone else) would be using their crummy platform in a production environment.

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MaximumMike

@dgrmouse

Learn to read.

>>The original poster criticized Oracle for having tools that weren't user-friendly, and you attacked him by calling him uneducated?

Wrong, the op criticized Oracle for requiring an education to use. I criticized the op for being too lazy to attain said education.

>>Your identity is obviously bound too tightly with what you do for you to be an objective judge on the software

Wrong again. I've been posting on this site for years and this is the first time I've ever mentioned that I develop in Oracle. So, how do you justify saying that my identity is tightly tied to what I do? Besides the opinion of someone who uses something professionally carries much more authority than that of some douche bag who's too lazy to learn how it works. And isn't the OP's opinion of SQL Server just as biased, if not more so? And probably yours as well? Try demonstrating some facts that make SQL Server better. Wait, you can't.

>>but I absolutely agree with the OP that it could be a LOT better.

So could SQL Server, which the op preferred. I'll take the superior of the two. Also, there are plenty of user friendly environments for Oracle, like Toad for instance. If one is too lazy to find a suitable environment to work in, I fail to see how that is Oracle's fault. And please don't lecture me on how easy Microsoft's IDE's are to use... they have a learning curve as well.

>>The other Oracle products are even worse.

Which ones would those be? And how is that relevant anyway?

>>Honestly, Oracle should be thrilled that Google (or anyone else) would be using their crummy platform in a production environment.

Java is one of the single most used platforms in the world. And it was in production environments all over the world long long long before Android was ever an idea. The fact that you didn't realize that discredits your opinion entirely. Furthermore, Java isn't really Oracle's product, as they didn't develop it. SUN Microsystems did. Many years later Oracle purchased SUN along with the rights to Java. But if it's such a piece of crap just go ahead and disable Java in your web browser and come back to me with an explanation of how awesome you find the internet.

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dgrmouse

Your little rant here has kinda' validated my point about you being too invested in Oracle to be objective. I said that Oracle products could stand to be better, and this statement is unequivocally true. If it weren't they would never come out with a new version.

re: Java - I have had it disabled in my web browser for ages and haven't had any ill effects. Are you thinking of ECMAscript instead, perhaps? People program in Java because it's a decent learning language and it's what they were taught. It has little to do with language superiority. There are also plenty of people programming in Cobol and Fortran, but I don't think you're going to hear too many people proclaim them to be amazing languages.

MaximumMike said, "some douche bag who's too lazy to learn how it works"
Awfully big words for someone who doesn't even own a machine gun.

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MaximumMike

>>Your little rant here has kinda' validated my point about you being too invested in Oracle to be objective.

Once again, wrong. Have you ever even read one of my posts? I rant about just about everything and am emotionally invested in very little of it.

>> I said that Oracle products could stand to be better, and this statement is unequivocally true.

I agreed with you. But it is just as true that SQL server could also be better. But those truth statements aren't what's at issue. I'm expressing my professional opinion of which platform is the best. I never said that Oracle couldn't improve, but that it was better than SQL Server, which it is. Stay on topic please.

>>Java - I have had it disabled in my web browser for ages and haven't had any ill effects.

Great, so you don't visit any sites that run Java. That doesn't change the fact that it's all over the place. And the fact that you can visit your favorite sites without it doesn't make it crappy.

Furthermore, there are a plenty of standalone Java apps that have nothing to do with the internet and can run nearly as fast as efficiently compiled code. Java apps are typically faster than VB apps. Java is actually one of the great success stories of programming languages, being both fast and portable. But if you want to talk about a prolifically crappy programming language, look no further than Visual Basic, yuck!

>>People program in Java because it's a decent learning language and it's what they were taught.

Wrong, again. Well, maybe some people program in Java for that reason, but the same can be said of programmers in any language. But serious developers program in Java for the particular feature set it brings to the table, one prime example being its portability.

>> It has little to do with language superiority.

Actually it has everything to do with language superiority. Don't get me wrong, Java isn't even my language of choice... but it is better suited for a plethora of tasks than most other languages.

>>There are also plenty of people programming in Cobol and Fortran, but I don't think you're going to hear too many people proclaim them to be amazing languages.

As if the general public is capable of evaluating Cobol or Fortran and popular opinion could somehow decide their merits. But if you actually read anything scholarly you'd know why they're both still around. Cobol is probably my most hated language of all time, but even I can appreciate how extremely efficient it is. If you ever actually learned it you would too. Fortran, though out of popularity, still has its niche for which it is unequivocally the best, namely math. You're not going to find climate scientists writing weather calculations in visual basic any time soon. Or wait, if you followed climate gate, maybe you will. But that doesn't mean they should. People who know what the F they're talking about actually do proclaim both Cobol and Fortran to be amazing languages. Guess which category you fall into.

The reason Cobol and Fortran aren't as popular anymore is primarily because they have very limited graphical capability. But that doesn't mean they're not amazing at what they do. Furthermore, I think Oracle is the best for databases, but that doesn't mean I think we should be developing graphical engines for video games in it.

>>Awfully big words for someone who doesn't even own a machine gun.

Honestly, that reference is lost on me. I missed whatever movie or song that's from and don't care to Google it.

But back to the actual topic. Why don't you go ahead and explain what Oracle does so terribly? Or what SQL Server does better than Oracle? Or what it is you think makes JAVA crappy and useless?

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The Mac

I agree with maximummike: He rants about everything

lol

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roberto.tomas

while I don't know that I agree with his argument in court, I think what Google is doing now with Android and OpenCL *is* evil.

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theferndog

If you know Larry Ellison, you know he's an asshole.

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ApathyCurve

And a certifiable loon.

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Pen Naam

Ellison is a narcissist and, it's predictable that he'd say something like this. Why is it even reported?

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John Pombrio

I like Android and don't like Mr. Ellison. SUN was purchased in 2010 after Google's Android had been out for 3 years already. SUN didn't mind, the courts didn't mind, about the only person who seems to be pissed is Larry.

Bill Gates needs to go after Mr. Ellison as well as Google. He has pledged to give away 95% of his wealth in 2010 and has yet to even make a small dent in it. Probably paying off the alimony from his 4 failed marriages.

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vrmlbasic

Perhaps he thought better of giving away his money at this juncture?

Though if Ellison's company hasn't formed a "secret" pact with the NSA then he's already miles ahead of Gates and Google.

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dgrmouse

vrmlbasic said, "Though if Ellison's company hasn't formed a "secret" pact with the NSA then he's already miles ahead of Gates and Google."

Government agencies are by far Oracle's biggest customers and Ellison is on record as a champion of the government spying on its citizens.

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vrmlbasic

Google is absolutely evil so the man isn't wrong.

Though if you asked me who ran Google I would have said "that sergey guy who is a crossdresser" instead of this larry guy. I suppose I should know the tech big-wigs lol.

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misterz100

Shouln't Oracle be like... working WITH google? Since Java is like a portal between Internet and PC for allot of things?

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Zanshi

Android is Linux with a Java shell on top of it. Google allegedy knowingly violated patents when creating Android, and never paid Oracle any royalties. There's bad blodd because of that.

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aarcane

The Java code in Android was used under an Open Source license in an Open Source project. To sue someone over that premise is an absurd idea!

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PCLinuxguy

Google never created Android. They bought out Android Inc (or whatever the suffix was) that was made and flopped before Google bought and put money into the project that allowed it to grow.

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The Mac

Aparently not, according to the judge.

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Upyourbucket

Two Billionaires squabbling over spilt milk