NSA Reportedly Hijacks PCs to Install Spyware, Has Backdoor Access to iPhones

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MaximumMike

Says you. But real patriots may have more to say about this than liberal, fat, complacent, yellow bellied traitors.

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The Mac

jump up and down and yell and name call all you like.

It will change nothing.

The government will do whatever it pleases, with or without your blessing.

If you think otherwise, i have some swampland in florida for you.

And for the record, i am a conservative, and a veteran. I know full well what our safety costs.

If the price of not getting blown up by the next fundamentalist wack job is the government perusing my porn collection, have at it.

The bad guys certainly arent concerned with your percieved "rights"

This is the reality of our modern society, adapt or perish.

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MaximumMike

Conservatives are also Constitutionalists. You're no conservative or patriot. Traitor maybe, as you and your ilk sell our freedom down a river. But if you think things can't change, you may be on the wrong end of a rifle one day. People are getting sick of it.

And no, that's not a threat. But I can personally see things getting very bad here as people get fed up with a federal government that is flushing the country and their rights down the toilet. You may think another civil war can never happen here, but I'm not so sure. They're about to push people over the boiling point with this crap. And I think that's exactly what they're banking on. I hope things will change peacefully here, but traitors to the Constitution, such as yourself, are squashing that hope every day. I really think a time is coming when people who are complacent in giving away the freedom of others will no longer be tolerated. You may have to pick a side some day, and I don't think you will have many Conservative friends.

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The Mac

sorry to break it to you, not everyone believes the same thing. That does not make me any less of a conservative.

I am pro military in every sense. Which is very traditionally conservative.

I pay my taxes, i expect to be protected by whatever means necessary.

Your kind of reactionary alarmism is whats destroying this country, not the NSA trying to catch the bad guys before they blow us all up

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MaximumMike

You're in denial if you think all the NSA is doing is trying to catch terrorists. America is very rapidly becoming a police state. All this blatant, warrantless domestic spying is far beyond what is necessary to catch terrorists.

Also, loving the military doesn't mean you have to be a fascist. I have the highest regard for the military and always cringe at military budget cuts. But that doesn't mean I support a military that treats everyone like criminals and looks over everyone's shoulders. In fact, the founding fathers of this country died in war to protect us from a government just like that. To be American is to resist an over bearing government that is overstepping it's bounds.

Furthermore, being pro military isn't enough in and of itself to make you conservative. Smaller government and individual personal responsibility are also key precepts of Conservatism, as is support of the Constitution. You fail on those points.

You may use a liberal tactic and label my patriotic indignation as "reactionary alarmism" all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that what the government is doing is wrong. And every time a traitor like you steps up to say, "nothing to see here, move along, you didn't need those rights anyway," I'll be one to stand up and refute every word out of your mouth.

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The Mac

Again, my defense of military and civilian intelligence agencies does not make a me a liberal.

and smaller government, and INCREASED personal responsibility is i assume what you mean.

I dont believe what is being done is unconstitutional, therefore im still in line with all YOUR requirements.

Not that what you think is relevent, i am what i choose to be.

Anyone who defends the practice of revealing state secrets is an enabler, and traitor to this nation.

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MaximumMike

>>Anyone who defends the practice of revealing state secrets is a traitor to this nation.

That's your twisted opinion. But as defined by the Constitution, anyone who defends the government practice of warrantless seizure of property IS truly a traitor.

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The Mac

Your twisted opinion believes that 4th amendment is being violated, it is not.

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

This is why we have a supreme court. They decide these things, not us.

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MaximumMike

>>This is why we have a supreme court. They decide these things, not us.

Yes, and no. The Constitution was written so that it can be understood by the common man. Our founding fathers furtively wanted every man to understand his rights. That's why it is also unconstitutional for you to be detained without having been read your rights.

Yes, the Supreme Court should decide matters of Constitutional authority. But when it becomes so corrupt that it is obvious to the common man that that Court no longer upholds the rights guaranteed him in the Constitution, then that man has the responsibility to take unto himself his God given rights as defined in the Constitution and say 'NO', to that corrupt court and the government that supports it.
The authority of the government is derived from the people and it is ultimately their responsibility to reclaim it from a government that abuses it. The final authority IS the American people.

It is my firm belief from study of several Supreme Court cases that when these programs are tried, the court will uphold our rights and find them illegal. But if it does not, I am fully capable of reading the Constitution for myself and am willing to fight for my rights. Even if the Court were to rule me a traitor for my beliefs, I will hold unswervingly to the Document that founded this country and to the precepts upon which the country I love was built.

A complacent people that says, "They decide these things, not us," will have no liberty.

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The Mac

i am a common man, i understand it, i see no violation.

i can say all those things you just said about my beliefs and rights as well.

i believe the quote you are looking for is:

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
-Benjamin Franklin

However, i since i dont believe there is a violation, this quote is not applicable.

has anyone broken out the popcorn yet?

lol

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MaximumMike

>>i am a common man, i understand it, i see no violation. i can say all those things you just said about my beliefs and rights as well.

Yea, this is exactly what liberals do when they're cornered. They ignore facts and start saying stuff like "what I'm saying is true and what you're saying is wrong," despite the fact that their statements have been logically shown to be false or in contradiction of something else held to be true.

But I actually address the difference between our positions on another thread where you tried the same thing. You can read my rebuttal there.

>>i believe the quote you are looking for is:
"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
-Benjamin Franklin

Actually, I wasn't trying to quote anyone, but articulating my own sentiments. But yes my statement was meant to echo that comment and several others by our founding fathers that were in the same spirit.

>>However, i since i dont believe there is a violation, this quote is not applicable.

Wait a minute. That doesn't even make sense, not even sort of. The quote above is about trading liberty for security, not about violating the Constitution. In fact, the spirit of the quote is that such a man would submit to a tyrannous government and allow that tyranny to become lawful in the pursuit of security. And it seems to me this is the very thing you are doing.

Furthermore, I can show numerous places where you have expressed that fighting terrorists (keeping us safe) calls for extreme measures and we should all just deal with the fact that the government is doing this to us because this is what society has to be to keep us safe. I can also show where you expressed that you do not like what is happening (maybe feel like you're losing some freedom) but there's nothing we can do about it because you feel it is necessary for this be legal in order to have security.

Go ahead and claim you never expressed these sentiments. I'll show you to be a liar again.

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The Mac

I can disagree with you and still understand what you are saying you know, which is why i posted that quote.

theres that word again: "Liar"

an opinion by its nature cannot be a lie.

might as well continue with the ad hominem attacks, same thing really.

I have indeed expressed distaste for the necessity of these tactics in the past.

Not in this article, and my distaste has no bearing on constitutionality.

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MaximumMike

>>theres that word again: "Liar"

Then stop with the lies and I'll stop calling you out on them.

>>an opinion by its nature cannot be a lie.

No, but a statement of fact can be. But you seem to have facts and opinions thoroughly confused.

>>might as well continue with the ad hominem attacks, same thing really.

Confused again are you? Calling you out for a lie and posting the proof thereof is not ad hominem.

>>I have indeed expressed distaste for the necessity of these tactics in the past. Not in this article, and my distaste has no bearing on constitutionality.

No, it doesn't. But this particular line of thought, though mostly irrelevant to the current debate, is about whether the Benjamin Franklin quote applies to your comments. My point was that the quote has nothing to do with Constitutionality and therefore your sentiment that the quote did not apply was unwarranted based on constitutionality. However, these other sentiments which you have just admitted to expressing are just the sort of thing Benjamin Franklin was talking about, in my opinion.

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Engelsstaub

I think you guys deserve credit for actually arguing about something worth arguing about. It's definitely more interesting than corporate lawsuits and loyalty to an operating system.

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The Mac

I dont think we are gonna make top five though, my attention span is wandering...

lol