No BS Podcast #229: Nvidia Responds to AMD's Allegations (and Shows off Shield Tablet)

58

Comments

+ Add a Comment
avatar

Evan Evans

Please change the title of this article to:
"MPC Defends Nvidia against AMD's cheating allegations"

Because that would be more accurate.

avatar

Evan Evans

It was great of the MPC crew to have NVIDIA on for a "rebuttal".

Unfortunately, NVIDIA didn't give an actual rebuttal, but instead gave smug smarmy comments without answering most of the specific accusations. They sounded like used car salesmen and at some points had MPC arguing THEIR case for them, without answering the original questions/accusations.

Huddy seemed more genuinely concerned with providing value to the entire community instead of just AMD customers, which may not be the best business move, but when the best business move is screwing over the other guy('s customers), it is NOT the best move for all of us.

As a result, I will NEVER purchase an NVIDIA product again and will recommend only AMD products in my store.

And MPC dropped the ball by not asking (I believe) the line tesselation question.

avatar

murdocj

It's great getting the podcasts with good deep discussion with the hardware guys. I know they are sometimes evasive but it's just a whole new level of detail and a lot of insight into the business end, and sometimes these guys are franker than I would expect.

I listened to the podcasts a bit out of order, I had somehow missed the AMD one, so I heard Nvidia, then AMD, then started listening to the Nvidia one again. I think the Nvidia guys have a better story, but I really think the podcasters could have been a bit tougher on them. For example, when it comes to Mantle, Huddy actually had a pretty straightforward explanation of making it an open standard this year, and why it would make sense (outside of competitive reasons) for Nvidia to implement it, but that got lost in the discussion.

I just started listening to the video, and even the opening question from Jimmy just sounds completely unprepared, like he just sat down and was trying to remember what the heck AMD's allegation was. I mean, I love this podcast, and most of the time I like the "off the cuff" discussion, but in this case I'm sure the Nvidia guys came prepared, and the Max PC team should have been prepared as well.

I also think there's a huge Pay Per View opportunity here. Just get the Nvidia and AMD guys to sign full releases against harm, put them in a room, and film it. One of the Nvidia guys (Rav? Rev?) sounded like he would have to be held back at the start so that he didn't just lunge at Huddy as he entered the room. He was practically foaming at the mouth at the mention of AMD. I'm pretty sure the revenue would pay everyone's salary at Max PC for quite a while.

avatar

tetris42

I finally finished the podcast, here are my impressions:

POSITIVE:
-I think Nvidia made a very compelling counterargument against Mantle about the gains v. compatibility issues + open standards. AMD really could stand to have a rebuttal against what they said.

-It's a little above my head, but they made it sound like Gsync could be bringing more to the table than Freesync and AMD's latency interpretations are incorrect (though real world tests will determine the truth in the future).

NEGATIVE:
-They flat out lied about not providing the source to Gameworks to developers, since they admitted to this from March + earlier to PC Perspective. So either they lied to PC Perspective or they lied to Maximum PC, take your pick. I think the latter.

-I didn't like their arrogance making it sound like they alone are driving the industry. While AMD hasn't had the same amount of dollars, they've innovated many times in some areas before Nvidia has. ATI had the first card with MSAA support, they had Adaptive AA before Nvidia had TRSSAA, they had MLAA before Nvidia did FXAA, and they had hardware-supported tessellation back in 2001. Both Nvidia and ATI/AMD have contributed a lot to the 3D graphics scene, to imply otherwise is just jackassery.

-Continuing with the arrogance, they would not let up about setting up false dichotomies about the "virtuous investment", refusing to address the issue that their way can harm standards across the ecosystem. The answer I kept hearing was "we're doing it our way, deal with it", which is kind of scary since we're only one company away from having a monopoly on the market.

-They flat out denied the lock-in contracts 100%, but I HAVE seen companies lie to the public straight up before when the actual contract contradicted their statements. Huddy's accusations sound plausible, Nvidia is denying it straight up, but since they have ALREADY LIED on Gameworks source, I'm inclined to believe AMD on this one without more evidence from Nvidia.

avatar

Jaymondo

Nvidia "we dont believe in closed APIs like Mantle", So what the feck is PhysX and CUDA ?

Full of shit

avatar

Jaymondo

After watching this video, and I am more convinced Nvidia are a bunch of lairs. If you want to stop this "game works" story, show us a contract, and stop the bull.

avatar

ashafar

It honestly to me sounds like a bunch of politicians. However as previously stated, business' are doing what they do to make money. Ethics would be nice, but that just isn't the world we live in anymore apparently.

Would I be shocked to find out its true? Not at all. Do I think AMD needs to cry about it? If they have legitimate reasons to believe that this is happening, then yes by all means.

I love nVidia, I have an nVidia GPU in my desktop and my laptop, but all this marketing stuff being CONSTANTLY repeated on the podcast about their "large investments" and "were doing the research instead of hoping it will happen" is honestly ridiculous the way it is portrayed.

Does nVidia always have good conferences with new tech? Absolutely, no one can deny that. Let the CEO do that, he is quite good at it. These guys sound completely like they are trying to defend themselves by "waving something else in front of our faces" to distract the issue at hand and the real reason they were even in the podcast.

Enough thoughts, just listed to the podcast this morning and it just kinda threw me into a bit of a ticked off state of mind. Next PC is going to have an AMD GPU in it, this much is certain. I need stuff that does X for $X. I don't need flair and I don't need another layer of software to "tell me" how to play my games.

-Ashafar

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

How about a shield controller + software that works with smartphones?

A smartphone attachment could be included with the regular controller they sell

Just clip your smartphone into the controller cradle and start gaming

Too much latency huh?

Maybe next year

avatar

LatiosXT

I found this: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/183411-gameworks-faq-amd-nvidia-and-game-developers-weigh-in-on-the-gameworks-controversy

Ultimately here's the thing, if you want someone to blame, blame the developers. All NVIDIA did was offer middlware to allow game developers to squeeze out more performance on their hardware. It was really up to the developers to decide if they wanted to add GameWorks in or not.

NVIDIA has their way of offering help to game developers. AMD has theirs. And often times neither work together because in the end, they're both hardware companies that want to sell you their hardware. They're just providing you software interfaces to make it worthwhile.

avatar

tetris42

The article doesn't address Huddy's accusations of saying a game company's management can agree to million dollar plus deals, while the developers get locked in. It's one thing to say "it's up to the devs", but if one side is essentially bribing them to use their software, that's part of the blame too.

Also from the article, both Nvidia and the devs agree that Gameworks is a potential threat to AMD.

avatar

tbone8ty

Glad that podcast is over with. Jeez.

avatar

sK0pe

All companies want and are required to make money.

If that means you have to dance around the truth that's fine. If you need to coerce the consumer into buying your product that's fine you have done your job.

The nVidia guys are just doing their job

The main issue as a consumer is which company is going to give me the most performance for the price.

I used to use nVidia until the prices of the cards were stupidly high and ATI released the 4850x2 which destroyed nVidia for a lower price.

I'm stuck at the moment I don't know whether to go for AMD or nVidia. My last build had 6900 in crossfire. One of these cards caught on fire, literally there was a flame and died (yet the 4850x2 lived forever).

Do I go with AMD who are forced into not giving the best results due to gameworks and might catch on fire again or do I go with nVidia who are an excellent business, they are good at making money and make a fairly stable system.

avatar

tetris42

"If that means you have to dance around the truth that's fine. If you need to coerce the consumer into buying your product that's fine you have done your job."

This is the reasoning of a sociopath, I'm sorry. I guess this concept is becoming outdated, but there is such a thing as "business ethics."

avatar

sK0pe

Business ethics - make sure you keep your investors happy.

I seriously haven't owned an nVidia card since 2007 I just don't want to spend $6-700 on a card that is going to catch on fire in a really well ventilated case, where the company finally sends outs its optimised drivers 2 months after I finish playing the game that they were for,

nVidia can be called out in a negative light but there is no compelling alternative.

avatar

RodneySavage

Nvidia Warns of Graphics Drivers With Overheating Risk:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/191813/article.html

Friend of mine lost Fermi based graphic like that btw. I have never had such a serious problem with AMD/ ATI. I had 3 NVidia cards and 4 AMD/ATI and AMD are just better. That is my exp.

avatar

USraging

I happen to like what nvidia has to offer. I have had my experiences with ATI now AMD, most of them negative. The only card that I never had a problem with was the radeon 800 PCI-E. AMD cards just seem to sacrifice stability, and good heat distribution for speed.

I switched over to a GTX 580 years ago and have not looked back. That is just my experience between the 2.

avatar

tetris42

Again man, you're talking like a sociopath. What you're describing isn't "ethics" in any sense, you're talking about maximizing profit for shareholders. Shareholders are not a "good" in themselves, if what they want is destructive, it's not ethical to keep them happy, even if can affect the bottom line.

Maximizing profit isn't necessarily ethical, on the contrary, it can often be at odds with what is. Lying to or misleading a customer base, or hurting future standards solely for profit isn't ethical. It may make more money or secure marketshare, but it's overall hurting things for consumers in the long run, that's not ethical.

As for your own videocard experience, that's an entirely separate issue. If the competing product isn't up to your standards, that's a valid argument. What isn't valid is to say this type of strong-arming and dishonest behavior is "fine", unless of course, you are a sociopath. In which case, there's not much point to debating this, a conscience is just a nebulous concept if you don't have one.

avatar

sK0pe

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

I agree it is a poor situation that the consumer is put in but this is simply how business works in the US.

If both these companies were in the EU they would be heavily scrutinised.

avatar

RodneySavage

Really. What for would AMD be scrutinised?

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

What is the future of Streaming?

1. Corporations could keep all sensitive databases offline yet stream the info they need when they need it to do their job

2. Any Operating System could be made touch enabled as well as any Software simply by streaming it to a touch enabled device

3. Software Compatibility
Corporations and the rest of us could use all our XP software that no longer works on Windows 7 or 8 by simply streaming it to another display

Net Savings = $Billions and $Billions

4. 3D without cables
Stream those 3D creations from a much more powerful computer

and on and on and on

The future looks bright indeed and their are no major hurdles to get any of this working at this point

STREAM EVERYTHING

It's The Holy Grail of Computing...
You will know when you got it right when you can stream whatever you want from a non-Internet connected computer directly to a Internet connected Android tablet without worrying about giving the offline computer malware of any type, even if it has no malware protection!

With smart AC and KVM switches, we could remotely turn on a remote computer and switch computers directly from our Tablets

Suddenly, Managing a Space Station or a Hadron SuperCollider becomes much more practical from a $200 tablet

avatar

vrmlbasic

You'd use an _Android_ tablet?

Not only is Android a kludge but if any OS ought to have the title of "The Spyware OS", it is Android.

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

Android, Linux, IOS, Windows or whatever else comes along
The tablet you use is irrelevant if streaming is done correctly

For example, you could use an Android tablet with spyware, viruses and malware of all types yet securely stream from a host computer that is offline with no malware protection of any kind except for a secure wi-fi connection to the tablet without worrying about the host computer getting malware from the tablet (See Disclaimer Below)<

Automatic switching of the tablets hardware inputs from Live (tablet only) to Virtual (Stream Only) could prevent any input to the host computer except for actual hardware inputs at the tablet

If you stop non-hardware inputs from entering the virtual stream, you can stop malware from affecting the host computer when you initiate a gamestream or whatever else you are streaming

Streaming to a bigscreen TV is like streaming to a dumb terminal
Streaming to the tablet is more like streaming to a smart terminal

You won't get malware on the bigscreen if you are only streaming picture and sound

Game streaming (when done correctly) can change the entire security model which can benefit Corporate virtualization as well

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:

Your streaming host computer will be Online and connected to the Internet for most of your games SO firewalls and malware protection are necessary

I am merely showing that the malware will not be from the tablet if streaming is done correctly

avatar

tetris42

I think you're replying to the wrong thread. In any event, streaming is good for some things, but it's a nightmare scenario for others when software you use (like games) get their plug pulled the second they're not immediately profitable to the parent company. Before artificial online-dependencies you never had games that 100% DIED, now you do. I find it kind of dystopian.

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

No, this is the correct thread and the comments apply equally to NVidia, Steam, and everyone else who wishes to jump on the StreamTrain

I was here at Maximum PC posting on the exact same streaming concepts now employed by the NVidia Shield and SteamBox before they were ever mentioned here because I saw the potential in (yes, I will say it) "MY" streaming concepts

Now, the rest of the Industry is beginning to see the light

Also, the fact that when a few games become unprofitable and pull the plug, they will have no affect on streaming environment because those games will be pulled whether they stream or not and streaming is not limited to a few specific failures but on the success of the winners and the many benefits streaming can provide when done correctly

One nightmare scenario I do see is individual Corporations selling "proprietary" streaming hardware and software

Another would be a Company trying to sell you streaming as a service where you would pay to stream what you already own from your own hardware, to your own device

Fuck That!

We need certain standards in place for an open environment that anyone can be a part of and profit from to truly work to everyone's benefit

avatar

Yarbles

The type of people who buy a Titan Z just for gaming must be the developmentally challenged with trust funds.

As for Richard Huddy vs Nvidia portion of the podcast the problem is not helped by sloppy unprepared journalism.

Rev Lebaradian “Have you ever heard of a game developer complaining that they wanted source access from us and we didn’t give it to them”

Tom McNamara “We haven’t ask them that question and nobodies like volunteered”

Come on Tom, why didn't you ask them?

Maximum PC had a scoop, it might be true or it might be total bs but because you didn't bother doing any digging around we can’t blame those 2 Nvidia guys for acting with faux indignation.

Is Maximum PC so scared of pissing off one of these two companies because you might be denied advanced issued GPU press units for review?

avatar

PCWolf

This is a common problem with today's journalism. You are correct. If MPC was to dig deeper & expose Nvidia's "cheating" as real, Nvidia might get mad & black list MPC. It's like when a Game Magazine says games from a Big AAA developer suck, soon that developer will not send you review copies. This happened to a certain Gaming Magazine years ago. Unless someone does an investigation that's not dependent on Nvidia sending them review units, then we will never know whats really going on. In all honesty, I would not put it past Nvidia to do something like this. Unless AMD itself can prove that these "Black Boxes" exist, Nvidia will just keep playing dumb.

avatar

tetris42

The "black boxes" DO exist, that's already been established in the link I posted earlier:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/NVIDIA-and-AMD-Fight-over-NVIDIA-GameWorks-Program-Devil-Details/NVIDIAs-Response

This part:

"When confronted with these posts NVIDIA did admit that the availability of the source code did not start until mid-April."

Just read the "fact-check" post I made below.

avatar

RodneySavage

Yes but you still find people who denied that, they are just probably own NVidia stocks or something.
NVidia also admit that game developer who will get the source code cannot share it, so AMD has no way to efficiently optimize their driver.
And of course GameWorks will hurt AMD graphics. Every effect from NVidia that can be used to hurt AMD was and will be used. This is decade practise with NVidia and no one can proof that because we do not have source.
I am really looking forward to AMD starts acting the same, Intel already does. And soon if you want to use all features you will have to buy 3 different PCs. Thanks to NVidia.

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

Just listened to Huddy again...

Mantle API's are specifically tuned for AMD hardware even though they will be open source (So What?)

The only way NVidia could use Mantle is to rewrite it to benefit NVidia hardware *(Again, So what?)

Huddy's comment that Mantle cannot hurt NVidia in any way seems bogus in this regard because NVidia tweaking Mantle for NVidia hardware would give AMD insights into NVidia's hardware that they do not get with Gameworks Closed source DLL's

Sorry AMD, if you want NVidia onboard, you should license their tech instead of asking them to give it away for free

The problem with DX12 is that it is Windows Only!

The only reasonable solution is one that works across all platforms and allows each hardware vendor to keep it's most guarded secrets closed source

In other words, it ain't gonna happen until AMD and NVidia both work great with Linux

If Microsoft controls the outcome, AMD might eventually fail so that Microsoft can buy it up for next to nothing

At THAT point, who cares if NVidia has better hardware or not?

You will either buy a Windows Spyware Platform to get the best gaming experience Microsoft allows or you must be a terrorist

That's how MonopolySoft works under the current Laws written by the criminals

You must either use a Government Sponsored Spyware Platform or they will have probable cause to Spy on you

Either way, you are so screwed!

avatar

tcubed

yeah grab that tinfoil hat

You have 0 idea what you're talking about. Gameworks is math 100%, math that can be tuned to a specific math engine(the gpu). Mantle is just a library that offers close to metal access meaning you get more control over what happens on the GPU not what it computes. Got it? That is why it's SO DIFFERENT! An API is much simpler to port then math routines built together with the silicon maker to work the best way possible using optimizations and most probably undocumented hacks nobody knows about but nvidia. An API is a very thin layer and Mantle itself is just a set of functioncalls that can be easily replicated should anybody really want to on the other hand finetuning the compilation and execution with silicon knowledge is a much bigger threat since that CAN NOT BE PORTED TO ANOTHER SILICON! Meaning AMD needs to basically rewrite that entire thing to use AMDs set of undocumented hacks architectural properties.

avatar

Bullwinkle J Moose

Whew

I'm so glad you cleared that up

Now we can all be friends

Now, about that Spyware Platform....

avatar

rhraziel

I hate the demeanor of that Rev guy. He seems like he just feels the allegations from AMD are beneath him and don't even justify a response.

avatar

RodneySavage

They do not know anything about AMD tech, because most of what they said about AMD were lies.
There is actually more games in AMD program than in NVidia program.
MANTLE has no benefit? Well then most of developers are idiots to use it.
We do not need low level API? Then why do you support DX12?
They did not even explain why GameWorks source suddenly cannot be shared when Radeon SDK and all tech are.
Hard to talk about G-Sync because we do not have enough spec, but latency was reviewed there and NVidia even respond they will have to work on that and fix it.
Raptr is using algorithm that only optimize the game, if there is better quality settings available!
It was all pure PR :/
BTW I do not believe they do not watch their competitors. Are they think we are all stupid?
I liked R Huddy interview much more in that matter.

avatar

TheMissingPiece

Aside from the obvious debate between AMD and Nvidia, loving the amount of guests on the podcast! Keep it up.

avatar

Xenite

Nvidia is one of the shadiest anti consumer companies around. Their idea of competition is limiting ability to compete, closed api's and paying off distributors with threats or cash.

avatar

LatiosXT

Just like:
* Microsoft
* Intel
* IBM
* Nintendo
* Sony
* AT&T (or any ISP for that matter)
* Apple
... and a bunch of other companies whom you probably buy your stuff from!

What else is new?

avatar

LesserAnimal

Last time I paid for a Microsoft product....weird I never have,
Last time I paid for an Intel Processor or motherboard.. nope never done that one. Fist build used a k6( WITH 3d NOW OH WOW).
IBM, nope haven't done that one either.
Last time I supported Nintendo with my cash was the n64 era shame on me at 13 for saving up my 5 dollar weekly allowance for one ;P
Sony, i get fucking carpel tunnel looking their system controllers and have never purchased products from them, no thanks, not ever.
AT&T, why would I pay them money for internet speeds that go backwards in time.
Apple, why would I do that?

Comcast.........shit you got me with a localized monopoly.
Point being most major companies are shit, but it's not hard to avoid the absolute worst of them in most cases, and pointing out the hypocrisy of someone else's purchases doesn't excuse or minimize in any way nvidia's decision to engage in shady business practices, nor does their hypocrisy absolve you from the choice you have to personally avoid products from companies that make a habit of being slimy.

Hell I play a game that suffers dramatically under AMD processors but I refuse to switch to Intel. I'm not going to spend my money on people who make immoral business practices on a regular basis. You can't find a clean corporation but you can avoid the worst offenders if you're willing to put your wants second to your ideals.

avatar

mono

So... you only play Linux games, or you pirate Windows.

avatar

RodneySavage

That's my man!

avatar

LatiosXT

Well good for you. You're probably one of the few people who actually walk the walk.

Also I hope you're not using Microsoft products. I count using and purchasing in the same boat because in the end you're still saying they're making a good enough product to deliver and use, which is what they want. Microsoft even said "If you're going to pirate software, you may as well pirate ours."

avatar

RodneySavage

Well if you want to play PC games you kind of have to. It is not your choice since there are no other options. Yes, there are some games on Mac / Linux but compare to numbers on PC Windows it is joke. And it is such a shame the windows is the only viable option out there.

avatar

tetris42

Yeah, but just because a lot of the industry does awful practices doesn't mean people should accept it and not call them out on it, that's the worst kind of apathy. On the contrary, I wish we could hold corporations more accountable. Out of that list, I know Intel flat out broke the law in the past and it helped ensure their level of success today.

avatar

tcubed

3BN$ fines says you're right! But that is nothing compared to what they actually made. They were at 45% PC market share when this started now they're like what 80%+- 90%? Just 3bn$? They should be paying AMD 100Bn$ and 200bn$ in fines just to make up for a decade of lies bribes and crippled compilers... They acted just like a mafia cartel. They should be executed like one in the courts!

avatar

LatiosXT

And then there's the dilemma, are you willing to call out the company and its products or are you just going to give that idea lip service? There's a lot of people out there who say things like "company X sucks!" and they keep purchasing or using products from them.

However the thing with AMD is... I wouldn't mind all of this is if they just were a more competent company. A lot of decisions they make aren't helping the business and honestly they're just too slow to embrace things that its competitors have marched into ages ago. On one side, sure NVIDIA are a bunch of [medical devices] for doing this, but on the other side, it's really easy for the losing company to say "our competitors are doing this!" without actually having to show for anything on their end.

At least when Apple was poking fun at PCs in the "I'm a Mac/PC" ad campaign, they had more or less a product to show for it. And Apple was on the verge of careening down the red path until they hired one man who made enough smart business decisions to get it to where it is now.

avatar

tetris42

Well I don't have one product of the companies mentioned except for Windows, but like ISPs, it's hard to escape a sole monopoly. For PC gaming, Windows is still king. This is why I'm hoping the Steambox goes somewhere, it could SLOWLY start pushing gaming towards Linux and open up an escape route for this.

I've long been an outlier of boycotting Intel ever since they broke the law on a massive scale back in the 00s and more or less got away with it besides a fine that doesn't come close to the damage from the EU. If they had actually obeyed the law back then, it's highly possible we might have some real CPU competition from AMD now instead of being underpowered.

I currently use an Nvidia card, but after hearing what they're doing, it's making me reconsider. I've only stuck with Nvidia because they simply have had more robust AA compatibility (even though ATI/AMD has been more the pioneer in that field, multiple times) and I'm a sucker for antialiasing, so it's a bit of a dilemma.

avatar

BMDC

More like: Nvidia LAMEworks.

avatar

tetris42

I still need to listen to the rest of the podcast, but I recommend everyone fact-check it against what was published earlier at PC Perspective:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editorial/NVIDIA-and-AMD-Fight-over-NVIDIA-GameWorks-Program-Devil-Details/NVIDIAs-Response

Short version:

-Gameworks WAS closed source and locked down prior to April, so Huddy's criticism was legitimate when he started it.

-Multiple developers called out Nvidia about this (can see in that article), showing this wasn't just an AMD thing.

-Nvidia now offers closed source AND open source options for Gameworks (it didn't previously), however the open source version costs more more, the price was unrevealed.

so it sounds like Richard Huddy wasn't lying at all, although it's possible some of his speculation was inaccurate is the best I can say in their defense, I'm really looking forward to see what Nvidia says to this.

avatar

tcubed

These guys are just clowns promoting their company to the bitter end. They make it sound like Huddy is a loon and the maximumpc guys just let it slide by putting vague questions and being ok with vague answers. Basically the editors went in totally unprepared and these clowns just made them dance as they saw fit.

They did not answer to any of Huddys actual allegations but instead bro'ed it out with the editors and made a total circus out of this. It looks like a commercial 100%

Title should read: Nvidia's 2 hours commercial space!

avatar

Insula Gilliganis

- Just got to listen to the first 20 minutes of this tonight but I think I got the gist of nVidia's main talking points, which is.. AMD/Richard Huddy LIES!!

Jimmy, I appreciate MPC's effort on getting both sides to present their cases.. but when it becomes basically a "he said, she said" contest, the next step is to have both sides meet "face to face".. or probably in this case "skype to skype". In reality only AMD and nVidia really know the true facts of what is going on and know very well their own stance on things. Only when having both of them square off together at the same time, when each side can directly ask questions of the other and there can be true rebuttal of accusations, can all of this really become clearer for you and for your readers. So far this is just been all pregame hype, trash talk. MPC needs to get both AMD and nVidia TOGETHER in the same place (physical or virtual) or else this podcast and Richard Huddy's have been nothing but a good attempt by MPC at arriving at some concrete conclusions and answers to this situation.

- I don't know who to truly believe in this "fight" but, at the moment, I tend to be siding with the nVidia guys as they seem to have more credibility with me, each having been with the company 10+ years, as oppose to Richard Huddy, who had been with AMD all of TWO WEEKS when MPC interviewed him. He seemed like a guy who AMD hired to be an attack dog.

- Just a note on the podcast bit rate.. I have 50/5 speeds so not any problem for me to download this and previous podcasts.. but just noticed tonight that you are encoding the podcasts at 192kbps!! Why so high?? No other podcasts I download are even close to that.. NoAgenda is at 96.. all the TWIT.TV podcasts are at 64.. PCPerspective podcast is at 64. Even the PCPro podcast, which is in STEREO (yours and all the other ones mentioned are in mono as far as my ears can tell) is at 128kbps. What about those NO BS podcast listeners who might be more "bandwidth impaired" or listen to the podcast on their phones.. does the podcast really need to be more than 64kbps??

MPC had a problem back in podcasts #204-209 where the bit rate was all over the place.. Podcast 204 was at 96kbps but then 205 at 32kbps; 206 was at 320kbps but then dropped on 208 to 48kbps, then increased on 209 to 217kbps (never knew you could encode at 217 but you did it). Glad you all seemed to standardize lately on 192kbps but that is way too high. What is wrong with using 64 or 96 and keeping it there?? Anything higher is just a waste of bandwidth.

avatar

Block_Dude

Jimmy, my ears are sensitive enough to discern minute quality differences between 320kbps and FLAC with my expensive McIntosh tube amp. I ***DEMAND*** you upload future podcasts in FLAC format!!!!

Also, this guy has never heard of a technology called "variable bitrate" -- something that's been around now for the past 19 years? Everyone, repeat after me, the following is the only audio encoding setting you'll ever need:

--preset fast standard

Everyone lived happily ever after, the end.