More Mantle Delay Rumors Surface in Relation to Battlefield 4 (Updated)

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John Pombrio

Frankly, Mantle sounds like it is geared more towards the new game consoles than the desktop PC. The AMD Next GPU/Mantle improvements only works for newer AMD graphics cards (AMD Radeon™ R7 series, R9 series and HD 7000 series graphics cards) or with newer AMD APUs. Since the discrete graphics cards already have strong frame rate, the end result will probably show a lot of benchmark improvement but with little effect on gameplay. With just APU support and only on recent chips, AMD's small percentage of the desktop will not affect very many people.
Sooo, that leaves the consoles and laptops as the major benefactors of Mantle. Anyone who uses just a recent AMD laptop without a NVidia graphics card inside to play games is going to be a small minority.
Any thoughts?

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AFDozerman

What consoles? Although mantle is an open standard, right now no consoles support it. Every new standard has to have early adopters. AMD was that. Regardless of what it is *best* used for, it is going to give a great speed bump to everything, making things more economical for the consumer.

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The Mac

it will never be on consoles, as those APIs are owned by the respective manufacturers and will never allow a third party API

Besides, its not needed on consoles.

It is a low-level(NOT bare metal) API with "Console Like" language for easy porting to platforms that ARE NOT consoles.

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vrmlbasic

I'm thinking that this will help prevent AMD from creating an "Intel Atrocity" 2.0 as now all AMD laptops will be able to game, unlike the millions of Intel laptops that cannot as they were saddled with Intel HD graphics. The cheap, "disposable" laptops of the future will be able to game, and that is a win.

Unfortunately I'm under the impression that it will only work on Kaveri APUs as Richland/Trinity/Llano used an older GPU architecture, but at least R/T/L APUs still game better than do their Haswell/Ivy/Sandy equivs.

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The Mac

its CGN only, including 1.0 due to the pixel shader structure.

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The Mac

mantle is an API, its not necessarily hardware specific.

However, Radeon cards prior to 7xxx do not have the ability to group shaders into render units, which is a requirement.

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LatiosXT

Well, here's my take on the whole thing.

The one spotlight feature that supposedly gives Mantle its performance boost is that it allows for more efficient draw calls, which are done on the CPU. The more draw calls you can feed the GPU, the busier you keep it and the higher performance you perceive. If the CPU cannot feed the GPU fast enough, the GPU sits around waiting to receive those draw calls. This is where that whole "CPU bottleneck" comes from.

If this is the basis of Mantle's performance improvement, this only affects systems with lower end CPUs. From what I can take from a lot of benchmarks, many games are still GPU dependent and thus the GPU is constantly taxed to its fullest. This means even if your CPU can feed it more draw calls, it's not going to get around to it. In fact, the supposed specs of the demo system at GPU 14 Tech Days was an APU with a R9 290.

But this may be a moot point. Game developers have been stewing the idea that instead of making a ton of individual draw calls, just batch a ton of them and send them at once. It may be a poor analogy but I can see this similar to sending 1000 files across hard drives versus all of them zipped up (if we ignore the time to compress/decompress).

However the other features like finer control over hardware for less glitches to happen may appeal more.

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John Pombrio

Mantle and Graphics Core Next by AMD are usually mentioned together as Mantle can access the GCN graphics cards architecture directly. Unfortunately, the cards that have GCN are the new, high powered Radeon cards: AMD Radeon™ R7 series, R9 series and HD 7000 series graphics cards. No luck for the older Radeon cards that could use this boost in frame rates.

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H1N1theI

So wait, Mantle is basically what display drivers (especially the Linux ones) have been doing since, er, 2005? :P

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maleficarus™

This is what I read as well. The real advantage will be lower-end cards. For me at least I am already pushing 90+ FPS Ultra in BF4 so what would Mantle do for me? What, give me 98 FPS? LOL...

Mantle to me seems like a giant AMD PR push to try to take away some Nvidia Steam. But you never know right?

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LatiosXT

Now that I think about it, AMD just created a magnificent bastard moment for itself assuming they market Mantle to critical mass.

AMD can't compete with Intel in the high end and most games actually don't need Core-i7 performance to achieve top performance (you can safely go down to an i3 and still top out heavy hitters). So what do they do? Lower the CPU requirement through Mantle so that its CPUs are now very cost effective for gaming.

It makes them look good in front of NVIDIA (their cards performing "better" than NVIDIA's) AND Intel (why buy their expensive parts when a cheaper AMD chip can perform just as well?)

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The Mac

its more than that. Advanced memory and texture management, 10x draw calls, less cpu loading for better AI, direct access to hardware features, crossfire memory pooling, etc.

Its basically a complete rewrite of DX, with a console freindly language for super easy porting.

That just gets all the press because of the new APUs.

There will be measurable performance gains, even on high end gear. So AMD says anyway.

We will find out sometime between now and friday, as AMD has confirmed it will be released this month assuming dice doesnt screw the pooch again.

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lordfirefox

It's Jan, 27th where I live so this news is *shrug* "Meh" to me.

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brannank

Don't Take It Out Of The Oven Until It's Done
I'd rather see a polished patch than a rushed and faulted one. I believe Mantle is very much worth the wait.

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TheITGuy

+1

Couldn't agree more. Late is better than on time if it doesn't work properly.

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LatiosXT

Wish that could be said about DNF.

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lordfirefox

That's because 3DRealms (the actual developers) screwed around playing WoW isntead of working on the game and then when it came time to produce they didn't have anything finished so all the code got shoved on Gearbox to do what they could with it and in the process took the fall for 3DRealms failure.

And people still to this day fault Gearbox...tsk.

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vrmlbasic

Considering that Gearbox went on to release the failed Aliens game there's evidence that Gearbox is responsible for a sizeable chunk of the suck in DNF.

Gearbox is likely all but entirely responsible for the performance problems in the PC port of DNF as Gearbox has yet to make a decent modern PC port. Considering that Gearbox considered it a miracle to have gotten FOV adjustment in Borderlands 2-something a fan patch added to BL1-I question their competence.

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AFDozerman

At this rate, maxwell will be out by the time mantle hits and the first mantle game will be Nitrus based...

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The Mac

AMD (Roy, Thracks, and Jim)has already confirmed the transcript was nonsense.