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 Post subject: The Cooler Master Cosmos wins SpazzAttack's Suck Ass Award.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:33 am 
Coppermine
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The Cooler Master Cosmos: An Easy-Bake Oven for Your Components

Yesterday, I received my new Cooler Master Cosmos case from NewEgg.com. I spent that evening moving my system’s components from my old CM Stacker into the Cosmos. It would be an understatement to say that I am very unhappy with the results.

First, my system’s components:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, overclocked @ 3.2 GHz, VCore @ 1.28v.
CPU Heatsink: Thermaltake V1.
Motherboard: EVGA 680i SLI.
RAM: Crucial DDR2 800.
Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling 750 watt Silencer.
VGA: EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra, overclocked GPU @ 660 MHz, RAM @ 2300 MHz.
Soundcard: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty.
Three Maxtor hard drives.
Two Plextor optical drives.

The initial disappointment came with the realization that, when closed, the front door of the Cosmos leaves about 1/8th inch between the front of the drive bay and the back of the door. There is no room for any kind of switches or knobs on the front panel of anything mounted in the drive bays. My Sunbeam reobus fan controller and the X-Fi I/O Drive for my Creative soundcard would have to go. Okay, so I will have to control my fans with the motherboard’s headers. Fortunately, the EVGA 680i has a lot of headers controllable from the BIOS. I could have removed the front door, but then it would look like a dorky case with the door removed.

The second disappointment came when I discovered that the cable management holes located above and below the motherboard tray were completely useless. The smallest wire running out of these holes would block the closing and locking of the case’s side panel. Therefore, all wiring must be routed through the two cable management holes at the front of the motherboard. [EDIT: I removed my confusing comment here about the wiring and the HDD cage airflow]

The third and final deal-breaking disappointment came when I fired up the system. The Cosmos is a lot louder and a lot hotter than my old CM Stacker.

How much louder? The Cosmos’ case fans at 60% are as loud (if not louder) than my Stacker’s fans at 100%. I even replaced the stock fans with my Noctua’s and the result was the same. The fan woosh from this case is too annoyingly loud for my everyday work at the computer; I work at home as a software engineer.

How much hotter? Can you say Dante’s Inferno hotter? My system, after idling for 30 minutes, with an ambient temperature of 25C (77F), all of the Cosmos’ case fans at 100% and all of the Stacker’s case fans at 50%, the temperatures compared are as follows:

CPU – Stacker: 38C; Cosmos: 45C. Delta +7C.
VGA – Stacker: 58C; Cosmos: 72C. Delta +14C!
Hard Drives – Stacker 32C avg; Cosmos: 60C. Delta +28C!!!!!

Remember, these are the temperatures with everything idling! At full load, the CPU temps were – Stacker: 55C; Cosmos: 65C (Delta +10C). At full load, the VGA temps were - Stacker 83C; Cosmos 90C and climbing (delta +7C+) before I cut it off.

Cooler Master’s Wind Tunnel fixture for the VGA did nothing to help the air flow to the card.

Moving the 120mm fan from the bottom of the case to the top of the hard drive cage and mounting it as specified by Cooler Master did little to remedy the drive temperatures. It even takes away two of the five drive bays when mounted! The hard drive temps did drop to about 55C, but that is still too damn hot.

To help the airflow, I even put the case up on wood blocks to make sure plenty of air was making it though the bottom air intakes--no improvement there.

If you have any sort of air-cooled, high-end / overclocked components in your system, then just forget about the Cosmos. Of course, if you water cooled everything, then the case would be useable. Otherwise, the Cooler Master Cosmos is an easy-bake oven for your computer’s components!

It’s time to move my system back into the old ugly, but quiet and cool, CM Stacker. And then issue an RMA request to NewEgg.

The Cooler Master Cosmos gets the coveted SpazzAttack Suck Ass Award.

I hope that your experiences with this case are more satisfactory than mine. :evil:

Edited some inaccuracies.


Last edited by SpazzAttack on Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:54 am 
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Thanks for the heads up. You not only reaffirmed my decision that the cosmos sucks, but also my decision to go with the CM stacker for my next build. You have a stacker 830? I think the black version of that case looks bitchin'.

Sucks that newegg charges a 10% restocking fee... :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:22 pm 
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qa9b wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. You not only reaffirmed my decision that the cosmos sucks, but also my decision to go with the CM stacker for my next build. You have a stacker 830? I think the black version of that case looks bitchin'.

Sucks that newegg charges a 10% restocking fee... :(


I just finished chatting with NewEgg. If I don't accept delivery of the package they will give me a full refund. I feel like a louse though.

Too bad they don't have a Wizard of Oz category where I could buy a brain...

Wolf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Wolf wrote:
qa9b wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. You not only reaffirmed my decision that the cosmos sucks, but also my decision to go with the CM stacker for my next build. You have a stacker 830? I think the black version of that case looks bitchin'.

Sucks that newegg charges a 10% restocking fee... :(


I just finished chatting with NewEgg. If I don't accept delivery of the package they will give me a full refund. I feel like a louse though.

Too bad they don't have a Wizard of Oz category where I could buy a brain...

Wolf


Funny how MaxPC said this case was great...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:45 pm 
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qa9b wrote:
Wolf wrote:
qa9b wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. You not only reaffirmed my decision that the cosmos sucks, but also my decision to go with the CM stacker for my next build. You have a stacker 830? I think the black version of that case looks bitchin'.

Sucks that newegg charges a 10% restocking fee... :(


I just finished chatting with NewEgg. If I don't accept delivery of the package they will give me a full refund. I feel like a louse though.

Too bad they don't have a Wizard of Oz category where I could buy a brain...

Wolf


Funny how MaxPC said this case was great...


They water cooled it. But I get your point. I wish I could ask them how the temps on their HDD's were. And I wish I could have actually seen one before I ordered, but Anchorage isn't exactly replete with computer hardware stores.

Wolf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:09 pm 
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Wolf wrote:
qa9b wrote:
Funny how MaxPC said this case was great...

They water cooled it. But I get your point. I wish I could ask them how the temps on their HDD's were. And I wish I could have actually seen one before I ordered, but Anchorage isn't exactly replete with computer hardware stores.

Wolf


The Cosmos is a very nice looking case, but it just doesn’t function as designed with components that generate a lot of heat. I had a similar experience with the Lian-Li PC-V2100BPlus II Black Aluminum Server Computer Case. The HDDs didn't overheat, but the CPU and the VGA card did a lot. I can only assume that the manufacturers of these cases test them with stock-clocked, middle-of-the-road components.

I don't know what temps MPC get with the HDDs in their dream machine case, but try as I might, I could not get the temps below 55C. That is totally unacceptable. I didn't mention this in my initial post, but after I moved the fan from the bottom of the case to above the HDD cage, the temps went up on the VGA card. Bah!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:55 pm 
Coppermine
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SpazzAttack wrote:
Wolf wrote:
qa9b wrote:
Funny how MaxPC said this case was great...

They water cooled it. But I get your point. I wish I could ask them how the temps on their HDD's were. And I wish I could have actually seen one before I ordered, but Anchorage isn't exactly replete with computer hardware stores.

Wolf


The Cosmos is a very nice looking case, but it just doesn’t function as designed with components that generate a lot of heat. I had a similar experience with the Lian-Li PC-V2100BPlus II Black Aluminum Server Computer Case. The HDDs didn't overheat, but the CPU and the VGA card did a lot. I can only assume that the manufacturers of these cases test them with stock-clocked, middle-of-the-road components.

I don't know what temps MPC get with the HDDs in their dream machine case, but try as I might, I could not get the temps below 55C. That is totally unacceptable. I didn't mention this in my initial post, but after I moved the fan from the bottom of the case to above the HDD cage, the temps went up on the VGA card. Bah!


Spazz, did you have BOTH a bottom intake fan along with the HDD fan sucking up thru the HDD's? Is there any possibility your problem was reversed air flow? My understanding is air is supposed to intake from the bottom and exit the top. I'm NOT questioning your abilities! Just a little crazed as mine is supposed to be here in the AM. I could deal with the cable management problem. The issue with the door would bother me because it would limit future upgrades that did have knobs etc. But the deal breaker for me is HOT and LOUD. Any chance you got defective fans?

I'm really thinking about refusing delivery and ordering a Lian Li PC-A71B or SILVERSTONE SST-TJ07-BW instead.

Wolf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:58 pm 
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Wolf,

You can question my abilties all you want. I don't mind that.

What I did was to take the bottom intake fan assembly and move it up to the top of the HDD cage. There is an extra place there to mount it as per Cooler Master's specifications. I did not use two at the same time.

As I mentioned in my inital post, I also replaced the stock fans with my quiet Noctura fans, but the result was the same. The two exaust fans out the top of the Cosmos (plus its third exaust fan out the back) just produce more noise than the single exaust fan out the back of my Stacker. Think about it for a second: With the Cosmos, you have two fans pointing up where you can hear them plus a third rear fan trying to suck the air through a large case. It is going to be a lot more noisy than my Stacker that has two fans toward the ground pushing air into a large case. The latter is going to be noiser regardless of how much sound-proof padding is in the case.

The air flow in the Cosmos is just inadequate for air-cooled components such as mine that generate a lot of heat. I don't know what else to say about it.

Look, your results may vary, but those were my results with my components. I don't much care for putting this product down, because I really wanted to like this case. Yet I cannot in all honesty nod my head and say how wonderful it was--because it overheats my components.

Cooler Master should have mounted the intake fan under the HDD cage to force cool air through it.

I could have lived with the Cosmos' door and the cable routing, but the overheating was the deal breaker.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:37 pm 
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While it helps, I still can't resist giving a wack at it. Not soon, but perhaps the second week of September. I'll ask to bump this thread from the mods at that time for another point of view.

While I respect your views of it out of the box; I do not, and have not ever, ran cases right out of the box. Cable Management = Me. Cooling = Me.


But I am a bit miffed at it having a Door. I gave up on those doored things back with the Chieftec monsters just for that reason. But...with software control becoming more mature, that may alleviate that matter. And I have 3 Creative Platinum bays on my closet shelf...so I guess I should stop buying those versions the next go around.
Quote:
Moving the 120mm fan from the bottom of the case to the top of the hard drive cage and mounting it as specified by Cooler Master did little to remedy the drive temperatures.
Quote:
Think about it for a second: With the Cosmos, you have two fans pointing up where you can hear them plus a third rear fan trying to suck the air through a large case. It is going to be a lot more noisy than my Stacker that has two fans toward the ground pushing air into a large case.
But you did this. Can't you put them back where you want them and kill that complaint?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:47 pm 
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SpazzAttack wrote:
Wolf,

You can question my abilties all you want. I don't mind that.

What I did was to take the bottom intake fan assembly and move it up to the top of the HDD cage. There is an extra place there to mount it as per Cooler Master's specifications. I did not use two at the same time.

As I mentioned in my inital post, I also replaced the stock fans with my quiet Noctura fans, but the result was the same. The two exaust fans out the top of the Cosmos (plus its third exaust fan out the back) just produce more noise than the single exaust fan out the back of my Stacker. Think about it for a second: With the Cosmos, you have two fans pointing up where you can hear them plus a third rear fan trying to suck the air through a large case. It is going to be a lot more noisy than my Stacker that has two fans toward the ground pushing air into a large case. The latter is going to be noiser regardless of how much sound-proof padding is in the case.

The air flow in the Cosmos is just inadequate for air-cooled components such as mine that generate a lot of heat. I don't know what else to say about it.

Look, your results may vary, but those were my results with my components. I don't much care for putting this product down, because I really wanted to like this case. Yet I cannot in all honesty nod my head and say how wonderful it was--because it overheats my components.

Cooler Master should have mounted the intake fan under the HDD cage to force cool air through it.

I could have lived with the Cosmos' door and the cable routing, but the overheating was the deal breaker.


I am NOT questioning your abilities. I repeat that because I don't want to be misunderstood. Really, I am grateful for your input! Would have been nice if it was last week but...

;)



What I was trying to say was *maybe* without the bottom fan acting as the main intake the whole negative pressure thing was screwed up. Not enough cold air coming in. But I don't see how that is going to make much difference to that HDD setup. You say they are packed together with NO way for airflow to get at the individual HDD's and holders? I assumed you would mount the fan on top of the HDD's sucking cool air thru them. towards the top exhaust. And have an intake fan on the bottom as well.

WTF?

Wolf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Chumly wrote:
And I have 3 Creative Platinum bays on my closet shelf...


You can always send one my way! Just the other day someone said I was creatively challenged.

Wolf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Chumly wrote:
Quote:
Moving the 120mm fan from the bottom of the case to the top of the hard drive cage and mounting it as specified by Cooler Master did little to remedy the drive temperatures.
Quote:
Think about it for a second: With the Cosmos, you have two fans pointing up where you can hear them plus a third rear fan trying to suck the air through a large case. It is going to be a lot more noisy than my Stacker that has two fans toward the ground pushing air into a large case.
But you did this. Can't you put them back where you want them and kill that complaint?


I don't quite follow you Chumly. Perhaps I am not being clear here.

The Cosmos is laid out this way:

There are two intake holes on the bottom of the Cosmos; one in front and the other in the back. The back hole is covered by the power supply, The front hole is covered by the HDD cage. The bottom 120mm intake fan is mounted in an assembly that sits behind the HDD cage on the floor of the case. That intake fan gets its air from a channel that connects diagonally to the opening under the HDD cage. In other words, the bottom fan sucks air in from from under the HDD cage. There are no fans drawing air directly from the outside. It's a weird arrangement if you ask me, but it probably helps ther noise reduction.

Now there is an alternative spot to mount the intake fan assembly on top of the HDD cage that will draw more air through the drives. It doesn't work very well since it is so far from the intake hole, it appears to be drawing a lot more hot air from inside the case over the HDDs than cool air from the outside. It also takes up two of the five drive bay spaces when mounted on top of the HDD cage when you take into account the need for space above the fan.

Here is a PDF file from Cooler Master's tech support that explains the alternative fan mounting.

There are three 120mm exaust fans in the Cosmos. One in the back at the standard ATX positon and two on the top-rear of the case.

How can I kill this complaint? :?

[EDITS: Added more info for Chumly and fixed a few typos].


Last edited by SpazzAttack on Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Wolf wrote:
I am NOT questioning your abilities. I repeat that because I don't want to be misunderstood. Really, I am grateful for your input! Would have been nice if it was last week but...

;)



What I was trying to say was *maybe* without the bottom fan acting as the main intake the whole negative pressure thing was screwed up. Not enough cold air coming in. But I don't see how that is going to make much difference to that HDD setup. You say they are packed together with NO way for airflow to get at the individual HDD's and holders? I assumed you would mount the fan on top of the HDD's sucking cool air thru them. towards the top exhaust. And have an intake fan on the bottom as well.

WTF?

Wolf


I never thought you were seriously questioning my abilties...oh geeze, just forget about it! :P

There is space between the drawers to move air though the HDD cage, but there should have been an intake fan below the cage to force cool air through it. It's a goofy arrangement. Read the description I left for Chumly and look at review photos of the case's interior off the Internet and you will see what I mean--I hope.

If I did some mods to the case then I could probably improve the airflow. But I don't have the time or the workspace to do something like that at this time. Besides, it does irk me somewhat that I would have to modify the case just to get it to do what it should be doing in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:52 pm 
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This is just my experience with this case with my components. If someone has a positive experience, then more power to you! Trust me, I would rather not lose the money doing an RMA on the case.

For myself, I won't be messing with "quiet" cases like the Cosmos anymore in the near future. I always end up with too much heat and not enough quiet.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:53 pm 
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According Cooler Master all you need is a bare 120MM fan and grill over the HDD,s , you don't need to use that mounting so all you are supposed to lose is the 3.5.

Spazz what ARE you going to get? You gonna RMA that sucker? I have a sign on my door to UPS saying Sorry Return To Sender. (I'm nocturnal) I keep coming back to Lian-Li. If mine used 120's and had room for a 8800GTX I wouldn't be looking.

BTW, someone suggested to me that you might work for a competitor. "Hello Silverstone? Is SpazzAttack there?"

LOL

Wolf


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:25 pm 
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Wolf wrote:
According Cooler Master all you need is a bare 120MM fan and grill over the HDD,s , you don't need to use that mounting so all you are supposed to lose is the 3.5.

Spazz what ARE you going to get? You gonna RMA that sucker? I have a sign on my door to UPS saying Sorry Return To Sender. (I'm nocturnal) I keep coming back to Lian-Li. If mine used 120's and had room for a 8800GTX I wouldn't be looking.

BTW, someone suggested to me that you might work for a competitor. "Hello Silverstone? Is SpazzAttack there?"

LOL

Wolf


Great, then mount the bare 120mm fan on top of the HDD cage and use that. Using their mounting assembly pushes the fan up against any drives above it, so removing anything in the second bay lets the air flow out the fan in the assembly.

Why not just give the case a chance with your system since it is going to arrive tomorrow anyway? I feel bad about scaring you. Heck, everything may work fine and you can consider me a whiner.

I am just going to RMA the Cosmos and stick with my CM (Cooler Master) Stacker and leave it at that. The Stacker has its qwirks, but I can control the temps and the noise. I have tinnitus so excessive droning fan noise can get my ears ringing on some days.

Oh yes, that makes sense me working for a Cooler Master competitor since I am going back to my Cooler Master Stacker case. ROTFLMAO!

[Edited]


Last edited by SpazzAttack on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:46 pm 
Coppermine
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SpazzAttack wrote:
Wolf wrote:
According Cooler Master all you need is a bare 120MM fan and grill over the HDD,s , you don't need to use that mounting so all you are supposed to lose is the 3.5.

Spazz what ARE you going to get? You gonna RMA that sucker? I have a sign on my door to UPS saying Sorry Return To Sender. (I'm nocturnal) I keep coming back to Lian-Li. If mine used 120's and had room for a 8800GTX I wouldn't be looking.

BTW, someone suggested to me that you might work for a competitor. "Hello Silverstone? Is SpazzAttack there?"

LOL

Wolf


Great, then mount the bare 120mm fan on top of the HDD cage and use that. Using their mounting assembly pushes the fan up against any drives above it, so removing anything in the second bay lets the air flow out the fan in the assembly.

Why not just give the case a chance with your system since it is going to arrive tomorrow anyway? I feel bad about scaring you. Heck, everything may work fine and you can consider me a whiner.

I am just going to RMA the Cosmos and stick with my CM (Cooler Master) Stacker and leave it at that. The Stacker has its qwirks, but I can control the temps and the noise. I have tinnitus so excessive droning fan noise can get my ears ringing on some days.

Oh yes, that makes sense me working for a Cooler Master competitor since I am going back to my Cooler Master Stacker case. ROTFLMAO!





You haven't scared me. I just got into a rush. It's been 5 years since I could afford to build a new box. And I never doubted your sincerity for an instant. One man's meat can be another man's poison. But the points you made were ones I was already concerned with.

I wouldn't transfer my current system into the Cosmos, it's just fine in my Lian-Li PC86USB. And I won't be able to build this new box until Oct. 3 at the earliest. Assuming no more wacked out medical expenses, the car doesn't die, and the creek don't rise for a couple of months.

"Alaskans can expect substantially bigger Permanent Fund dividend checks this year. he Daily News estimates $1,575 for each qualified applicant. That's a big jump -- about $468 -- over last year's dividend of $1,106.96. The first dividend payments go out Oct. 3 to people who applied online in January for direct deposit. Another round of direct deposits goes out Oct. 17, with paper checks going into the mail on Nov. 13."

The case is the first item I seem to buy when building a new box.

The way I keep flip flopping I may send it back and then order another one next month. Or I may get a Lian-Li PC-A71B

Thanks for taking the time to reply and thanks for your candor!

Wolf


Last edited by Wolf on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:55 pm 
Coppermine
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OK. I know too well how the rush to buy something / buyers remorse thingy works! :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:57 pm 
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SpazzAttack wrote:
OK. I know too well how the rush to buy something / buyers remorse thingy works! :lol:


I have a terminal case of buyers remorse I'm afraid!

No pun intended...

Wolf


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:57 pm 
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I just edited it. I don't what time it is in Alaska, but it's 1 AM here. Time for beddy-bye. *yawn*


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