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 Post subject: Six needs YOUR help!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:24 am 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
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Building my first Core i5 for a co-worker. Accordingly, the peripherals (monitor, keyboard & mouse) don't need to be super-high quality, and the videocard doesn't need to be anything other than cool, quiet & able to do HD youtube. :-)

My budget was $1200, but I went under budget by $100 after two MIR for $60 total.

Item List:

1 x ($24.99) KB&MS GEAR HEAD | KB5100W R - Retail $24.99

1 x ($29.98) CPU COOLER CM| RR-B10-212P-G1 RT - Retail $29.98

1 x ($69.99) VGA SPARKLE|SXT2201024S3-NM GT220 R - Retail $69.99

1 x ($179.99) MEM 2Gx2 | GSKL F3-17600CL7D-4GBPIS - Retail $179.99

1 x ($49.99) CASE TT|VL80001W2Z BK RT - Retail $49.99

1 x ($134.99) MB GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 P55 R - Retail $134.99

1 x ($129.99) PSU TT|W0319RU 850W RT - Retail $129.99

1 x ($199.99) CPU Intel|CORE I5 750 2.66G R - Retail $199.99

1 x ($99.99) HD 1T|WD 7K 32M SATA2 WD1001FALS % - OEM $99.99

1 x ($179.99) MNTR VWSNC|LCD 23" 5MS VA2323WM - Retail $179.99

1 x ($33.99) DVD BURNER LITE-ON | IHAS424-98 R - Retail $33.99

1 x ($12.99) CPU THERMPAS|ARCTIC SILVER ADHESIV% - OEM $12.99

1 x ($-15.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #309196$-15.00

1 x ($-15.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #304445$-15.00

Subtotal: $1116.87
Tax: $0.00
Shipping and Handling: $37.43
Rush Order: $2.99
Total Amount: $1157.29

(LESS $60 in MIR): $1,097.29

Now, my question is... I want the memory running at its default PC2200 speed, with a slgiht overclock on the processor with no vCore increase. What settings do I need to adjust in the BIOS to accomplish this? I know the default of the Core i5-750 is 2.66GHz (20 x 133MHz). What FSB:DRAM frequency do I need, etc., etc., etc.

THANKS!

-Six


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:06 am 
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just a quick suggestion, if you only want light video card duties then a 4650 is better suited to the task at $45

POWERCOLOR AX4650 512MD2-LHV2 Radeon HD 4650 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Low Profile Ready Video Card $45 ($30 after MIR)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814131180

if you want a light gamer then this card is better at $70

SAPPHIRE 100295HDMI Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102854


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:12 am 
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With no bump to the voltage and a slight OC, you can save some money by sticking with the retail HSF. It is capable, on average, of at least 500 or 600 MHz in the OC dept ... sometimes much more.

The PSU is *way* overkill. You don't need more than 600w for that setup even with a mild OC.

This Antec EarthWatts is on sale for $75 with free shipping, or
This 700w OCZ StealthStream offers a bit more power and a lot less noise for the same price

You chose a very expensive set of RAM designed for high-end OCing. Since you are planning to keep the RAM to CPU-stock speeds, you can save $100 with this OCZ Gold Edition 2x2GB (4GB) DDR3 dual channel kit

All of which should save another $180.

Your OCing questions belong in the OC folder. Bad 6!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:05 pm 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
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C'mon gang.

The system's already purchased; parts are OTW. Just need the settings, etc.

Sigh. I'll move the thread to o/c. :D

-Six


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:13 pm 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
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Jipstyle wrote:
You chose a very expensive set of RAM designed for high-end OCing. Since you are planning to keep the RAM to CPU-stock speeds


No, bad Jipstyle. I want the Ram running at the Ram's default of 2200, which is much faster than the default for the CPU (1333).

Tech sites are getting stable 4+ GHz o/c's with slight vCore increases. I want the best stable O/C with stock vCore, and running the memory at 2200 instead of 1333.

-Six


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Number Six wrote:
C'mon gang.

The system's already purchased; parts are OTW. Just need the settings, etc.

Sigh. I'll move the thread to o/c. :D

-Six


DON'T USE THAT ARCTIC SILVER 7 UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR HEATSINK TO PERMANENTLY STICK TO THE PROCESSOR. ARCTIC SILVER 7 IS A THERMAL ADHESIVE NOT THERMAL PASTE.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:20 pm 
Java Junkie
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Number Six wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
You chose a very expensive set of RAM designed for high-end OCing. Since you are planning to keep the RAM to CPU-stock speeds


No, bad Jipstyle. I want the Ram running at the Ram's default of 2200, which is much faster than the default for the CPU (1333).

Tech sites are getting stable 4+ GHz o/c's with slight vCore increases. I want the best stable O/C with stock vCore, and running the memory at 2200 instead of 1333.

-Six


Ah! I misunderstood. Sorry 'bout that.

Right, I don't know how much you know about the new BIOS', Chams, so forgive me if I give too much detail.

The front-side bus is dead and gone. With the memory controller now integrated on the chip, what was once the northbridge no longer exists. Instead, we have a Base Clock (Bclock, or BCLK) and a bunch of multipliers. Specifically: CPU, Uncore, and Memory.

The base clock is a frequency most similar to the old FSB and you won't go wrong by equating the two. They aren't the same, really, but if you use them the same way, you'll be ok. The BCLK of your i5 750 (and all Lynnfields) is 133.

The CPU Clock multiplier determines your CPU speed and core frequency. The 750 is 20 and is upward locked. This means that you should be able to turn it down, but never up. BIOS dependent, of course. 20 * 133 = 2.66 Ghz ... your stock speed.

The Uncore multiplier determines your uncore frequency. This is where shit gets weird. Your core frequency governs your CPU and L1/L2 caches. The uncore frequency governs the memory controller and the shared L3 cache. This of it this way: the core frequency applies only to the discrete cores whereas the uncore frequency governs everything on the chip that does not belong to a discrete core. Clear as mud? Doesn't matter .. just remember that OCing your core results in big gains and OCing your uncore doesn't really do much.

Finally, your RAM multiplier governs the speed of your RAM (duh). RAM mult X BCLK == RAM speed. Stock, your RAM Mult should be 10 ... 10 x 133 == 1333MHz.

So ... where do you want to set these things? Excellent question. It really depends on the options on your board.

You can ramp your BCLK up to 200, giving you a 4Ghz CPU speed, and put your RAM mult to 11, give you 2200 MHz RAM ... tapping out those expensive sticks of yours. Doing this without a volt boost is unlikely ... most people need to push to 1.4v to get a 4GHz speed from a 750.

I recommend dropping your CPU Mult to 14, pushing your RAM mult to 11, and trying your BCLK at 200. This will give you a CPU speed of 2.8 with your RAM maxed out. If it passes the stability tests, slowly push the CPU Mult up while bringing the RAM mult down, keeping the RAM around 2200 and seeing how high you can go without
overvolting the CPU.

Note: I haven't actually got my i7 yet, so all of this advice is garnered from extensive googling and forum reading. YMMV and I'm not responsibile for any light shows, fires, or burnt-out parts. :P


Last edited by Jipstyle on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $54.95
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129066

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115215

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler - Retail $28.83
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103065

IC Diamond 7 Carat Thermal Compound 1.5g $9.99
http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0282371

GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $104.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128405

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - Retail $93.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231277

POWERCOLOR AX4650 512MD2-LHV2 Radeon HD 4650 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814131180

SeaSonic SS-500ET Bronze 500W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - OEM $67.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151080

Gateway FHD2401 Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 400 cd/m2 2000:1 - Retail $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824113019

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA CD/DVD Burner - OEM $26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827151192

Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000 - OEM $14.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6823109178

Rosewill RM-1600L Black 5 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Laser 1600 dpi Mouse - Retail $9.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6826193039

Total: $857.68


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:57 pm 
Java Junkie
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Number Six wrote:
C'mon gang.

The system's already purchased; parts are OTW. Just need the settings, etc.

Sigh. I'll move the thread to o/c. :D

-Six


Since No.6 probably doesn't want to repeat him .. her .. uh .. since 6 hates repetition, I'll do it for hi .. her ... fuck it.

READ.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:42 pm 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
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Danthrax66 wrote:
DON'T USE THAT ARCTIC SILVER 7 UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR HEATSINK TO PERMANENTLY STICK TO THE PROCESSOR. ARCTIC SILVER 7 IS A THERMAL ADHESIVE NOT THERMAL PASTE.


Hmm... okay, time to find the tube of AS5. Thanks for the heads up. I'm sure I can find some other use for the AS7.

-Six


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:46 pm 
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guoruiwu1994 wrote:
Total: $857.68


Well, there's a lot to like about your system. My LCD's are the Gateway 2400's which I love for office work. The keyboard & mouse and thermal paste are better choices too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
You can ramp your BCLK up to 200, giving you a 4Ghz CPU speed, and put your RAM mult to 11, give you 2200 MHz RAM ... tapping out those expensive sticks of yours. Doing this without a volt boost is unlikely ... most people need to push to 1.4v to get a 4GHz speed from a 750.

I recommend dropping your CPU Mult to 14, pushing your RAM mult to 11, and trying your BCLK at 200. This will give you a CPU speed of 2.8 with your RAM maxed out. If it passes the stability tests, slowly push the CPU Mult up while bringing the RAM mult down, keeping the RAM around 2200 and seeing how high you can go without
overvolting the CPU.


Perfect. Thanks Jip!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:55 pm 
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I built an i7 860 based computer about a month and a half ago and have it running at 4ghz with only a 0.1v increase on the vcore (stock is 1.2625v) now the thing with these processors is they all should run up to their maximum turbo mode on stock voltage (nothing in life is guaranteed though :-P), in the case of that i5 750, that being 3.2ghz. since you want to run that ram at 2200mhz, you may need to increase the VTT voltage as that speed will be hard on the IMC. stock i believe is 1.05v and Intel recommends no more than 1.2v VTT for an extended period of time as it could damage the IMC. Also dont forget that no more than 1.65v should be put into the DRAM voltage as any more will blow out the memory controller. and finally, dont be disappointed if you cant do 200mhz BlcK. the built in Pci-E on socket 1156 processors doesnt like high BclK's and will let you know with general instability. sometimes you can counter this with setting the Pci-E frequency to 104mhz, but thats not a guarantee that it will help. anyway I hope this helps! if you have questions, post here or PM me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:12 pm 
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simple_inhibition wrote:
I built an i7 860 based computer about a month and a half ago and have it running at 4ghz with only a 0.1v increase on the vcore (stock is 1.2625v) now the thing with these processors is they all should run up to their maximum turbo mode on stock voltage (nothing in life is guaranteed though :-P), in the case of that i5 750, that being 3.2ghz. since you want to run that ram at 2200mhz, you may need to increase the VTT voltage as that speed will be hard on the IMC. stock i believe is 1.05v and Intel recommends no more than 1.2v VTT for an extended period of time as it could damage the IMC. Also dont forget that no more than 1.65v should be put into the DRAM voltage as any more will blow out the memory controller. and finally, dont be disappointed if you cant do 200mhz BlcK. the built in Pci-E on socket 1156 processors doesnt like high BclK's and will let you know with general instability. sometimes you can counter this with setting the Pci-E frequency to 104mhz, but thats not a guarantee that it will help. anyway I hope this helps! if you have questions, post here or PM me


The 1.65v on memory is only recommended voltage it can go higher especially since it isn't the voltage on the controller. They sell i7 grade ram with higher stock voltage than 1.65 but after that the ram itself can start to fail due to the high voltage so don't go over the ram's rated voltage.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Danthrax66 wrote:
simple_inhibition wrote:
I built an i7 860 based computer about a month and a half ago and have it running at 4ghz with only a 0.1v increase on the vcore (stock is 1.2625v) now the thing with these processors is they all should run up to their maximum turbo mode on stock voltage (nothing in life is guaranteed though :-P), in the case of that i5 750, that being 3.2ghz. since you want to run that ram at 2200mhz, you may need to increase the VTT voltage as that speed will be hard on the IMC. stock i believe is 1.05v and Intel recommends no more than 1.2v VTT for an extended period of time as it could damage the IMC. Also dont forget that no more than 1.65v should be put into the DRAM voltage as any more will blow out the memory controller. and finally, dont be disappointed if you cant do 200mhz BlcK. the built in Pci-E on socket 1156 processors doesnt like high BclK's and will let you know with general instability. sometimes you can counter this with setting the Pci-E frequency to 104mhz, but thats not a guarantee that it will help. anyway I hope this helps! if you have questions, post here or PM me


The 1.65v on memory is only recommended voltage it can go higher especially since it isn't the voltage on the controller. They sell i7 grade ram with higher stock voltage than 1.65 but after that the ram itself can start to fail due to the high voltage so don't go over the ram's rated voltage.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel- ... ,6464.html
http://news.softpedia.com/news/A-CPU-Fr ... 5055.shtml

maximumpc ultimate core i7 overclocking guide 02/05/09 wrote:
"Finally, you’ll have to add voltage to your RAM to get it to higher speeds. There has been chatter that a RAM voltage exceeding 1.65 can destroy a CPU— fortunately, most of the high-performance DDR3 binned for Core i7 doesn’t seem to need more than 1.66 volts to run, which is certainly within reasonably safe limits."


http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... page=0%2C1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:12 pm 
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yeah but Intel also doesn't officially support ram over 1333 and all of those articles were just speculation someone needs to test this with high voltage ram to see if anything happens I think its just Intel trying to be more green. But anyway I was talking about a .01-.025 increase.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Screw tomshardware, softpedia, and...um...media blair *Smile*.

It's a false warning Intel wanted all vendors to put in their manuals and BIOS on their virgin outing. In house ES were showing the IMC to be fragile, but that's relative to the hellish ways they test them. Without going in to depth, I've been sitting here far over 1.65VTT for a year now loaded 24/7 on two i7's (W3520 and an i920). The i5 is just coming to terms with me, but find it doesn't NEED the VTT upped like the 1366 i7 demanded. So it's really a moot point.

I do agree that anything over 180 BlcK is hit an miss on stability. The #1 PCIe is directly linked to the CPU vise the NB and any stress on that trainline sets the system on a list. The p55 has it's limitations, and this is why it's not an x58 build. May be an i7/i5 in the socket, but the layout is a different bird.
---------------------------------------------
Six, in the end, I'd have to recommend what others were hinting at. Get as close to the MemFreq you can to the 2200 goal, but don't set it so firm that it HAS to be 2200. If you can get 2112 (Rush!) and slight CPU OC's, I'd call it a great success. But settling on 2016 actual ratings and that same CPU OC isn't failure by any means. The ratios just don't do well in any build as the memfreq ratings are just that...speed limits, not goals. . I'd aim for 2112 as that's playing with the ratios off the top of my head. If you feel frisky, you can then continue the CPU bump and try to hit the 2200 mark, but it doesn't hit it squarely. It's over or under, and a lot of issues in that grey area.

Just an odd (yet great contrast) to our usual "push the CPU" type question. That's when we view the memory as reserve in the tank vise a mileage one must get out of a set amount. In other words, it's achievable, but...oh hell... you'll see!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:15 am 
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I got mine running at 4.0ghz with a vcore of 1.43 since on a ud3r since the ud3r suffers from alot of vdrop that comes out at like 1.37 in windows and it has been rock solid stable for 3 weeks.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:48 am 
All Your Basestar Are Belong to Us
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Any opionions on Shin_Etsu X23-7783D thermal compound?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8922/ ... _Gram.html

-Six


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:46 am 
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Wasn't this the good stuff eveyone was talkign about?

ICD7 Thermal Compound $6.99


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