Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:20 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Idea for a new project....
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:13 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93347
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93145

I am thinking of solving both of these issues with one application. Locking the desktop is trivial. Requires maybe 5-7 lines of code total, including braces :)

I am familiar with writing and deleting from the registry. So that is fine.

Create an application that is the only start up app. It locks the desktop and then proceeds to load every app in its list. It can scan the registry to look for newly added programs, save the key information to a file and remove it from the registry. Then give each application a "weight" and start each one in order.

Thinking of storing the startup programs as XML. Maybe SQL Compact just to play with it?

Thoughts? Comments? What would you want as a feature?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Idea for a new project....
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:50 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Earth
CrashTECH wrote:
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93347
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93145

I am thinking of solving both of these issues with one application. Locking the desktop is trivial. Requires maybe 5-7 lines of code total, including braces :)

I am familiar with writing and deleting from the registry. So that is fine.

Create an application that is the only start up app. It locks the desktop and then proceeds to load every app in its list. It can scan the registry to look for newly added programs, save the key information to a file and remove it from the registry. Then give each application a "weight" and start each one in order.

Thinking of storing the startup programs as XML. Maybe SQL Compact just to play with it?

Thoughts? Comments? What would you want as a feature?


Use XML, lightweight and file I/O is faster than I/O in the database anyways. Why waste CPU cycles opening up a SQL connection when you can just use an XML file?

Also, you'll need to address dependencies for each app that executes at startup.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Idea for a new project....
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:35 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
DJSPIN80 wrote:
Also, you'll need to address dependencies for each app that executes at startup.
Will I really though? Seems windows just goes down its list? I can give each app a retry count, say, 4. That means it will try to start the app 4 times. This would mean if it had 4 successive dependencies it would fail to start (possibly, worst case).


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Idea for a new project....
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:44 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Earth
CrashTECH wrote:
Will I really though? Seems windows just goes down its list? I can give each app a retry count, say, 4. That means it will try to start the app 4 times. This would mean if it had 4 successive dependencies it would fail to start (possibly, worst case).


I could be as wrong as a bad date. :P Feel free to double check it and correct me. :) I usually stay away from Windows Registry when programming, config files are where it's at for me.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:12 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
Only dealing with the registry because that is where the start up paths are located.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:21 pm 
Northwood
Northwood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:37 pm
Posts: 2261
Location: No. 1 Thread Killer
I would love this program as it is, without going too far and asking for too many features. C:

Keep in mind that the 2nd person in that list is on Win XP pro and not Vista so that may screw some stuff up for you.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:32 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
I am going to have to try to handle both cases and find out how to handle the registry and start up stuff.

To be honest though, I don't think they changed too much. I will try to make sure that it doesn't need to run as an admin but I am sure that UAC is going to bitch a fit about some things.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:35 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
Dwood15 wrote:
I would love this program as it is, without going too far and asking for too many features. C:
Como what? I haven't written anything yet. :)

What features would you want? My list is pretty short right now TBH.

1.) Allow the order of start up programs to be set.
2.) Give each application a (configured) number of start attempts.
3.) Allow the user to have the desktop locked after it starts up.

I can't think of too many other things that would go with this application specifically.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Idea for a new project....
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 am 
Super Mario Banhammer
Super Mario Banhammer

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:20 am
Posts: 595
CrashTECH wrote:
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93347
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93145

I am thinking of solving both of these issues with one application. Locking the desktop is trivial. Requires maybe 5-7 lines of code total, including braces :)

I am familiar with writing and deleting from the registry. So that is fine.

Create an application that is the only start up app. It locks the desktop and then proceeds to load every app in its list. It can scan the registry to look for newly added programs, save the key information to a file and remove it from the registry. Then give each application a "weight" and start each one in order.

Thinking of storing the startup programs as XML. Maybe SQL Compact just to play with it?

Thoughts? Comments? What would you want as a feature?


Crash,

A few questions for you on this

What level of startup do you want this program to execute at? Boot? OS Load? Service Startup? Post Login? Load Device?

Where were you thinking about storing the initial executable?

Do you want this to load prior to programs like AV Software?

What happens when Safe Mode is invoked? More appropriately stated what do you want to happen when the user invokes safe mode?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:25 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
I would assume I would let the OS handle it. The basic point would be to let the user control when things loaded and give them a little control over the speed.

As far as programs like AV, it would be up to the user. I wouldn't think my application should care.

It should load in safe mode as well, but maybe maintain a different list of applications to load?

The only problem I see is maintaining the list and preventing the OS from just loading stuff.

I haven't had much time to design the app so this is good to talk about now, since I haven't written any code at all. Not even a proof of concept.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:47 am 
Super Mario Banhammer
Super Mario Banhammer

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:20 am
Posts: 595
CrashTECH wrote:
I would assume I would let the OS handle it. The basic point would be to let the user control when things loaded and give them a little control over the speed.


Ok next question on this topic then becomes Which OS is it written for XP? Vista? Windows 7? each one has a different loader. XP uses NTLDR
Vista Windows Boot Manager, and Windows 7 RC uses Boot Loader. the load sequence between the 3 are different and the timings are different. Critical devices load before startup programs in Windows 7 Critical Device Drivers load after certain startup processes in Vista and XP so youur startup list may differ.

CrashTECH wrote:
As far as programs like AV, it would be up to the user. I wouldn't think my application should care.


Depends on the AV software. Some like Avast and Kaspersky have a realtime boot scanner that if its enabled would need to be accounted for.

Others like Trend Micro load After windows loads and login occurs but as soon as authentication happens for a console user the AV takes control and does not pass it back until both update and memory resident scans are completed.

CrashTECH wrote:
It should load in safe mode as well, but maybe maintain a different list of applications to load?


Definitely have seperate lists of programs to load as well as loading those programs with the correct startup params (switches) if they have them that will disable certain types of behavior that safe mode cannot cope with.

CrashTECH wrote:
The only problem I see is maintaining the list and preventing the OS from just loading stuff.


Yeah. The OS is going to attempt to load stuff regardless of what process you put in front of it to limit its execution. ( this is why i hate Windows OS's and why virus and trojan writers Love it) But AV Software can get around this aka Avast and Kaspersky so it IS doable. I dont understand how they manage that trick tho but they do. Maybe borrow their methods?

CrashTECH wrote:
I haven't had much time to design the app so this is good to talk about now, since I haven't written any code at all. Not even a proof of concept.


Always the best time to discuss writing an app is before you have written any code :D


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:53 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
basically it wasn't supposed to be any more complex than going out to the registry, sucking in what is in the Run key and then creating my own config file, and deleting those from the Run registry key.

Then, the only thing in the "run" registry setting or the start up folder would be this application.

It would then process its files as the user told it to.

Simply, let the OS start my app, and then my app starts everything else.

You could draw out the pre-loading of applications (over 3 minutes or so?) so that the OS loads up and you can get into firefox before, say bit torrent, snagit, AIM, or whatever else you have starting up automatically.

Faster boot time while still letting all your apps start up in the sys tray. Although I try to keep it minimal anyway.

This probably isn't something I am likely to start any time soon. It doesn't seem to be a really high demand thing, nor do I really think I would be able to use it too much.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:19 am 
Super Mario Banhammer
Super Mario Banhammer

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:20 am
Posts: 595
I dont know still sounds like a good concept for a learning project tho. As long as you arent concerened with getting into the OS prior to the low level stuff then just write it out like you envisioned it. You could certainly keep the programs like yahoo AIM Bittorrent etc out of the picture by loading out of the Run key and then loading an optimized list of programs.

Proof of Concept if nothing else. lets you know it can be done


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:20 am 
SON OF A GUN
SON OF A GUN
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 11605
Oh, I know it can be done.

Not sure you want to go so low level though to pre-load with the OS. Seems kind of a bad idea to muck around with that :)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:44 am 
Super Mario Banhammer
Super Mario Banhammer

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:20 am
Posts: 595
CrashTECH wrote:
Oh, I know it can be done.

Not sure you want to go so low level though to pre-load with the OS. Seems kind of a bad idea to muck around with that :)


Agreed!


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group