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 Post subject: Re: On higher education:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:17 am 
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volatile wrote:


Sweet jesus!

I attend the most expensive school in Canada. Not necessarily the best, but it is among the top 5 schools in the country for undergraduate education. Grad studies, of course, depend on the field.

My tuition is a bit shy of $7000 a year. That is just courses .. no housing or books. Still ... wow. I can understand now why so many people ask about alternatives to a college education.

I still (strongly!) recommend a Bachelor's from a recognised school above other forms of education for anyone who wants to be a programmer. There are other options, but this is the easiest and clearest path.

I also recommend that people remember that you are paying for two things when you buy an education. You are paying to learn and you are paying for a piece of paper that will open doors in the industry. Schools all rank differently in both of those respects and you need to be capable of assessing your skills and strengths to choose which is most important to you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:41 am 
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JeremyWatts2005 wrote:
The ITT where I am the Dept Chair at I teach the why and the how and hire instructors along that line also. I have students in first quarter getting hired by IT companies locally. This is also a requirement I make of the instructors and myself is to bring the community in and let them see the top notch training we are providing on our campus. They are impressed to say the least. I have the students do various drills. For instance the lab final is to take a PC that is fully assembled and disassemble and then reassemble in less than 25 Minutes. The PC has to be fully operational to pass. If you don't then you fail simple as that. I don't even let them hit the power button they have to be confident they did everything right. This is the first quarter students. So again not every ITT is the same


The very first sentence of your post says one of two things:

1) You can't use proper English - if you're a department chair that directly reflects on the quality of ITT's instructors, doesn't it?

2) You're not a department chair.

Your test is good for laughs though.

ITT earns an EPIC FAIL from me for their stupid commercials. Every one talking about their family pushing them to go to ITT.....whatever.

If your family is pushing you, they should be pushing you towards a real degree from an accredited institution.


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 Post subject: Re: On higher education:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
volatile wrote:


Sweet jesus!

I attend the most expensive school in Canada. Not necessarily the best, but it is among the top 5 schools in the country for undergraduate education. Grad studies, of course, depend on the field.

My tuition is a bit shy of $7000 a year. That is just courses .. no housing or books. Still ... wow. I can understand now why so many people ask about alternatives to a college education.

I still (strongly!) recommend a Bachelor's from a recognised school above other forms of education for anyone who wants to be a programmer. There are other options, but this is the easiest and clearest path.

I also recommend that people remember that you are paying for two things when you buy an education. You are paying to learn and you are paying for a piece of paper that will open doors in the industry. Schools all rank differently in both of those respects and you need to be capable of assessing your skills and strengths to choose which is most important to you.


For Virginia Tech and UVA that is not JUST tuition. It is tuition PLUS room and board. The actual tuition is close to what you pay for your school which is right around $7k. So really, the last guy's argument saying that they are comparable is an outright lie. For ITT you have to pay $15K PLUS a roof over your head.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Aaaah! The little lightbulb finally went off. :oops:

Thanks. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:03 am 
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hey i just graduated high school in 2008.
im looking for an education in the 'IT field'
i am considering either getting my CCNA or trying for a BS degree at devry for their CIS program.

i like technology ive been doing it for years blah blah blah... im sure you guys have heard these stupid personal stories before.
basically, id rather go into programming than networking because it seems a little more... fun and constructive than setting up networks.

i have my a+ certification and repair comptuers occassionaly for people i know. technician jobs are OK, but id rather be programming, as most people would. ive programmed simple C++ stuff from cmd prompt, but i have not had the discipline to start learning how to make applications for the windows environment. if i ever want to get a job programming ill need a higher education anyway, so id like to give that a shot.

i dont want to waste a bunch of money on some devry or ITT school if its not getting me a job. im also not considering going to a college because i just went through 4 years of high school, and i hope to never take mandatory liberal art or history classes again. the only BS degrees i respect coming from college are engineers and science, maybe business and economics, but libearl art BS degrees are BS when it comes to teh work world.
oh yeah, im also bad at math, so i cant be an engineer(couldnt pass trig)

id like to try computer programming without all the miscellaneous BS that goes with most schools, i know devry has that stuff too, but it seems like they focus more on getting a job than teachnig you useless crap that i dont care about.

i am currently enrolled for the fall semester at my local JC and can get my CCNA by the end of the spring 2009 semester, at a VERY low cost compared to these schools, but i really want to give programming a shot:

is there any way i can get into programming and get a job without all the mandatory extraneous useless classes? i just did 4 years of useless BS, i dont want to do it again an PAY for it...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:59 am 
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There is a reason those extra classes are required.

Generally speaking, the lower the quality of the education, the more likely you are to be able to avoid 'extraneous' classes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:57 am 
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Jipstyle wrote:
There is a reason those extra classes are required.

Generally speaking, the lower the quality of the education, the more likely you are to be able to avoid 'extraneous' classes.


yeah i noticed that too. but i dont know of any vocational schools or any type of school that exist that just teach you programming, or if youd even get hired.
i also dont want to spend 8 fucking semesters in school again. i want to start working and making money, id like to learn something but not for 4 years because i dont want to be paying student loans off the rest of my life, and 4 years seems like a longer time than necessary to learn programming anyway. are you really using that full 4 years to learn about computers and programming? no.

i dont do well in classes i dont care about, im not good at college math classes, so if i even get into a state school, i will probably drop out. i just want to program computers, because i like it and im interested in it unlike the other subjects.

id like some school that is discrete in programming, no bs classes, and is around 2 years long or less... a lot to ask for, but hey this is america.

got any suggestions anyone?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:00 am 
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Well, all advanced programming is math so you're screwed there. System administration and things like web programming are possible, though.

You need to put in some effort and risk in order to succeed in life. The easier the path, the lower the pay-off. etc. etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:45 am 
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Jipstyle wrote:
There is a reason those extra classes are required.

Generally speaking, the lower the quality of the education, the more likely you are to be able to avoid 'extraneous' classes.


That's a bit inflammatory. Applied Sciences degrees often purge the "fluff"...or area's of study outside the Sciences...for a return on practical application of given theories. Like wise the education you get at Colleges tend to be "applied"...and at Universities they tend to be more theoretical, with some applied aspects. Two completely different cups of tea...actually one is a cup of tea, and the other is a coffee.

Quality of education has notion to do with educational stature...it has everything to do with quality of curriculum, quality of instruction, and quality of resources given to student to learn. Something Universities and College (private or public) hit or miss regularly.


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 Post subject: ITT does SUCK!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:20 am 
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I went there and graduated with honors. Four years later I still can't get a job. It is a very expensive (so called) school and waste of money. With ITT was to get me into the Computer Networking field. It was $20,000 for two years for a diploma. After graduating I found out that I could have went to a different different school for $15,000 and with that price got all the certifications included. In the past you always saw on television a "job placement program." Why don't they mention that on their commercials now? When I went to the job placement worker in the hallway one day and said I will need to get a job she said "There is a list of employeers in that office, you WILL NEED TO FIND YOUR OWN JOB!" I called corporate a couple years ago saying that I didn't get any job placement/anything. I need to get a job but they didn't help. They said that they will help me get a job. I still have the document they e-mailed me and I still have no job. They have not called or anything. You see ITT and some others always advertising late night or during the afternoon on television. Is that so younger people not aware of this rip off can get ripped off? And I know they set me up with SallieMae for my student loan. I didn't know that it was going to start at 14% intrest rate. And in 2005 ITT Tech had a lawsuite against them in California because they were giving there students higher grades than they should have because it could get more Statford loans for more RIP OFFs! You can go to www.ripoffreport.com and type itt tech for a business names and see if you get any complaints. Also you can see people compaining about this school on www.youtube.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:00 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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M1BILL...that's unfortunate. However, go out and write your certifications.

That has more weight than education alone.


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