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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:09 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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This thread reminds me of this poster:
http://www.despair.com/potential.html

If you can get into a real college or university then by all means do so. Tech schools like ITT are extremely expensive, good employers won't consider your for a job, and, for the most part, you're going to be interacting with a bunch of depressing losers, not winners. Why would you even consider going there?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:54 am 
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i went to itt tech and no, its not worth it. its way too expensive. youre better off going to a JC (junior college..which is lot more fun)


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 Post subject: ITT tech sucks - Dont get ripped off
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:15 am 
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I am a former ITT Tech student, as is my wife. We both are very unsatisfied with ITT Tech and have started a website to bring people together to go forward with a class action lawsuit against ITT Tech.

Those of you who have been duped (as we were) into signing up for ITT Tech and realized what a rip off it was... please visit, join and participate. By myself there is nothing I can do about the debt and waisted time, but with enough people together there IS hope.

The only other option is "take it like a man" and pay the crooks and let them carry on with ripping more people off. No thanks... I'm too stubborn to lie down and "take it".

http://www.ittscam.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:13 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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I was going to bitch about someone bringing this thread up again, but it looks like you have a legitmate reason. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:15 am 
Java Junkie
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TwoTone wrote:
Okay, lets get this back on track. Kind of...


So I am attending an on-line college (regionally accredited) to get my Associates in IT / Networking and eventually transfer to a four year degree, probably Computer Information Systems....

Do employers look upon these degrees any differently than those from a traditional school?


TT


Of course they do.

A technical training college will teach you to plug wires into routers and basic system administration. It will teach you the 'how', but not the 'why'.

A university teaches you the 'why' ... but much less of the 'how' .. you'll be able to design a robust network, for instance, but might not have any idea where the wires actually go.

An on-line degree / cert will tell the prospective recruiters a lot about your education .. you didn't have one-on-one face time, didn't have the social aspects of school (there is more than drinking in college .. social networking has landed me most of my jobs) .. but on the other hand, you may have gone to school while supporting yourself (hardworking is a definite plus).

You guys are comparing apples and oranges here. Don't choose a school based on what is easiest ... choose a school based on your career path.

If you want to be a programmer, you HAVE to go to college. Period. For those who are about to say 'oh, I know guys who taught themselves and got a job and ... ' ... if the OP was such a person, he wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

If you want to be a techie, playing with hardware and doing support for users, then certification is fine.


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:40 am 
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Gadget wrote:
I was going to bitch about someone bringing this thread up again, but it looks like you have a legitimate reason. Good luck.



Thanks for not flaming...I know the whole ITT Tech being a rip off is a dead horse to many, but there are still people getting ripped off.

Thanks again


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:16 am 
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DeVry and ITT bases their cirriculums on current empoyment and technological trends (DeVry does for a fact, dont know about ITT), but what DeVry does with their courseload is prepwork for certs (A+ AND CCNA) rolled into their courses. As a DeVry student close to graduation (had to take a break), I can tell you that taking the time within your studies to push towards certs will make you more marketable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:46 am 
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The ITT where I am the Dept Chair at I teach the why and the how and hire instructors along that line also. I have students in first quarter getting hired by IT companies locally. This is also a requirement I make of the instructors and myself is to bring the community in and let them see the top notch training we are providing on our campus. They are impressed to say the least. I have the students do various drills. For instance the lab final is to take a PC that is fully assembled and disassemble and then reassemble in less than 25 Minutes. The PC has to be fully operational to pass. If you don't then you fail simple as that. I don't even let them hit the power button they have to be confident they did everything right. This is the first quarter students. So again not every ITT is the same


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 Post subject: Re: ITT Tech...The Truth
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:24 am 
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Sidious wrote:
O....the instructor would say this is what your going to be doing in the lab, this is what its going to look like now go do it. ....


thats how any college is lmao. college is a waste of money. a good high price school has good instructors. any general university or community college has nothing but fly by night teachers who dont even specialize in what they teach. and thats why you get zero quality education, but pay $1000 a class.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:20 am 
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ITT does need to up the salary of instructors and chairs to get top quality talent. The IT fields of study ar paying far and away better than most colleges.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:31 am 
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JeremyWatts2005 wrote:
The ITT where I am the Dept Chair at I teach the why and the how and hire instructors along that line also. I have students in first quarter getting hired by IT companies locally. This is also a requirement I make of the instructors and myself is to bring the community in and let them see the top notch training we are providing on our campus. They are impressed to say the least. I have the students do various drills. For instance the lab final is to take a PC that is fully assembled and disassemble and then reassemble in less than 25 Minutes. The PC has to be fully operational to pass. If you don't then you fail simple as that. I don't even let them hit the power button they have to be confident they did everything right. This is the first quarter students. So again not every ITT is the same


You'd be fired instantly by any decent university if your employers ever read this statement. How does an educational institution hire a Department Chair who is functionally illiterate?

Assembling and disassembling PCs is something most of us learned to do in a magazine. Guess what .. it cost me $7.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:58 am 
Sharptooth
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Jipstyle wrote:
JeremyWatts2005 wrote:
The ITT where I am the Dept Chair at I teach the why and the how and hire instructors along that line also. I have students in first quarter getting hired by IT companies locally. This is also a requirement I make of the instructors and myself is to bring the community in and let them see the top notch training we are providing on our campus. They are impressed to say the least. I have the students do various drills. For instance the lab final is to take a PC that is fully assembled and disassemble and then reassemble in less than 25 Minutes. The PC has to be fully operational to pass. If you don't then you fail simple as that. I don't even let them hit the power button they have to be confident they did everything right. This is the first quarter students. So again not every ITT is the same


You'd be fired instantly by any decent university if your employers ever read this statement. How does an educational institution hire a Department Chair who is functionally illiterate?

Assembling and disassembling PCs is something most of us learned to do in a magazine. Guess what .. it cost me $7.


he said first quarter you dummy. i think the 1 time power button thing is lousy as its not realistic and doesnt apply to the variety of computer systems, and further more the possiblity of computer defect. a better test would be to password the BIOS in addition to giving them 30minutes to setup a PC frm nothing to functional. it takes 10mins to build a PC, and a few extra to troubleshoot. your test fails at utilizing a quarters worth of troubleshooting knowledge if im not mistaken.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:09 am 
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rayatwork05 wrote:
he said first quarter you dummy.


What is your point? Learning to build PCs is not something for which anyone should pay.

Quote:
your test fails at utilizing a quarters worth of troubleshooting knowledge if im not mistaken.


His 'test' fails to test anything other than 'can the student plug components in properly'. Someone would pay to learn this? Really?

Troubleshooting, at least, requires some experience and knowledge .. you're correct in pointing out the deficiency in the 'test'.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:34 am 
Sharptooth
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Jipstyle wrote:
rayatwork05 wrote:
What is your point? Learning to build PCs is not something for which anyone should pay.



1) you paid yourself
2) technically theres more risk of loss building a PC then there is setting up a network
3)both networking and PC repair make the same amount.
4)no magazine provides in depth knowledge of PC repair. in fact ive never once in my life read any PC manual that contains all the small and large aspects of either networking or PC repair.
5)theres more variance in computer repair then there is in networking.

sit on that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:07 am 
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You guys might be surprised to know that people actually go to college to get additional training in systems and networking. Now I do lecture and give all the in depth details about everything under the son.

There are other drills such as all of the PC's being downed by me with various problems and you have a set time to repair them or bring the network up. I give no clue as to what is wrong and you must diagnose each one. The PC building drill is for confidence building and also to place the student under stress. Yes stress is part of the field and of course there are going to be intense situations.

You would be surprised to know a lot of people coming into college have no idea how to do basic PC repair so don't assume its something everyone knows. You would also be surprised how difficult working a full time job and going to college at night.


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 Post subject: are you serious?
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:17 pm 
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rayatwork05 wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
rayatwork05 wrote:
What is your point? Learning to build PCs is not something for which anyone should pay.



1) you paid yourself
2) technically theres more risk of loss building a PC then there is setting up a network
3)both networking and PC repair make the same amount.
4)no magazine provides in depth knowledge of PC repair. in fact ive never once in my life read any PC manual that contains all the small and large aspects of either networking or PC repair.
5)theres more variance in computer repair then there is in networking.

sit on that.


LOL...sorry but that is one of the most uninformed posts I have ever read. More risk building a PC than networking? Friend, network engineers/admins must set up networks that are the backbone of the business. If the network goes down their company comes to a halt. Maybe the only experience you have in networking is just plugging in your computer to a router. That does not equal NETWORKING. Networking involves everything from hardware (Cisco hardware, assembling rackmount servers, everything a PC Technician does plus more), running cables, configuring operating systems, setting up Exchange servers, VPN, active directory, etc. Please do not speak of something you do not know of. I am a software engineer by profession, but after having set up a small business network for just a 15 user network was a huge pain and I have a new respect for networking people.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:15 am 
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rayatwork05 wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
rayatwork05 wrote:
What is your point? Learning to build PCs is not something for which anyone should pay.



1) you paid yourself


No, I didn't. :? What an asinine thing to say. Of course, I benefited from my learning .. there was no payment involved.

Quote:
2) technically theres more risk of loss building a PC then there is setting up a network


Have you seen the cost of a Cisco switch lately? Any idea how much money it costs a company when the network goes down? The costs can be staggering. Losing a PC involves a swap from inventory to a new box with a fresh image. Losing a network involves people losing their jobs.

When did the conversation switch from building PCs to repairing PCs? About the time it was useful for your 'argument'?

Quote:
3)both networking and PC repair make the same amount.


If you are getting paid by the hour as a network admin, then you are getting soundly fucked over.

Quote:
4)no magazine provides in depth knowledge of PC repair. in fact ive never once in my life read any PC manual that contains all the small and large aspects of either networking or PC repair.


I've been building PCs for almost 2 decades. I've busted one processor by crushing the die with the heatsink. (Bonus points to the first person to identify the processor family .. ). I learned everything from boot, MPC, and (much later) online.

Quote:
5)theres more variance in computer repair then there is in networking.


Again .. PC building != PC repair.

(The symbol pair '!=' means 'is not equal to')

Quote:
sit on that.


I've got a chair, thanks, and all the ragged edges from what you present as a argument wouldn't be as comfortable.


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 Post subject: On higher education:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:35 pm 
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As a bachelor’s degree wielding graduate of DeVry University (phoenix campus, incidentally), I can confirm that DeVry is now a fully accredited university that requires all of the courses required by most state universities to acquire a 4 year degree (English, Math, Science, etc.). The tuition costs are substantial, just like a state university and the quality of the professors varies as much as it does at other schools. Teaching staff ranged from sub-par (in my humble opinion) to stellar. I stayed with DeVry because I could get a CIS degree while working full time. DeVry of phoenix has made great strides to organize their operation and the administration staff is very helpful.

Is DeVry for everyone? Maybe not. That’s a personal decision. Visit the school, get more information, figure out financing, and then decide if you should do it. As I said before, DeVry isn’t cheap for a 4 year degree – I would highly recommend taking classes at a local community college and transferring in as much as possible. DeVry’s administration staff can tell you if a certain class will transfer for credit.

My two cents: It’s not a bad way to go. I finished my 4 year Computer Info Systems degree at DeVry in March (magna cum laude) and now (July) I’m working for a Fortune 500 company as a Database Administrator.


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 Post subject: Re: On higher education:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:51 am 
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liquidblue wrote:
As a bachelor’s degree wielding graduate of DeVry University (phoenix campus, incidentally), I can confirm that DeVry is now a fully accredited university that requires all of the courses required by most state universities to acquire a 4 year degree (English, Math, Science, etc.). The tuition costs are substantial, just like a state university and the quality of the professors varies as much as it does at other schools. Teaching staff ranged from sub-par (in my humble opinion) to stellar. I stayed with DeVry because I could get a CIS degree while working full time. DeVry of phoenix has made great strides to organize their operation and the administration staff is very helpful.

Is DeVry for everyone? Maybe not. That’s a personal decision. Visit the school, get more information, figure out financing, and then decide if you should do it. As I said before, DeVry isn’t cheap for a 4 year degree – I would highly recommend taking classes at a local community college and transferring in as much as possible. DeVry’s administration staff can tell you if a certain class will transfer for credit.

My two cents: It’s not a bad way to go. I finished my 4 year Computer Info Systems degree at DeVry in March (magna cum laude) and now (July) I’m working for a Fortune 500 company as a Database Administrator.


Oh, please. You created an account for this one sole purpose? Looking at your post count of 1 indicates you are one of those DeVry employees coming in here to do damage control. I have two points of contention.

1. You claim that the quality of professors varies. This may be true, however the professors at normal universities are far more qualified, in general, to teach. They have doctorates in their field. They are not just people pulled off the streets and claimed to be "experts" in their fields. I'm sure there are some DeVry and ITT instructors that are good; but they are a not the norm.

2. You claim that the tuition rate is comparable to state schools. Again, wrong. If you compare it to out-of-state tuition then I would agree with you. But you can easily stay within your state and get a far better deal and education. For example, I will use my state.

Virginia Tech:
http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleges/Tuition-Financial-Aid/Virginia_Polytechnic_Institute_and_State_University/233921.aspx
$14, 721/yr

UVA:
http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleges/Tuition-Financial-Aid/University_of_Virginia-Main_Campus/234076.aspx
$17,225/yr

ITT:
http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleges/Tuition-Financial-Aid/ITT_Technical_Institute_-_Chantilly/441964.aspx
$15,600/yr

Devry:
http://www.collegetoolkit.com/Colleges/Tuition-Financial-Aid/Devry_University-Virginia/440536.aspx
$15,940/yr

At first the numbers look good right? Look deeper. The state schools include housing in dorms. If you remove that from the equation and live off-campus you can cut those costs by half. DeVry and ITT on the hand does not and the entire amount is the tuition. So if you factor in the fact that you have to pay over $15,000 without even including housing you are paying an astronomical amount. You can also make it an even better deal by going to a community college and then transferring to one of these schools.

Every thread I see regarding ITT or DeVry I see people like you who defend them and then rattle off how they live comfortably now and are working for a Fortune 500 company, yada yada. It's like you guys have a template for posts. I won't argue that some manage to make a life for themselves with this education. However, just looking at the number of complaints, law suits, and just common sense let's me know that, overall, these schools are more interested in your money and not your education.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:19 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Needless to say there are both advantages to going to public and private colleges/universities.

Not everyone has 4-5 years to spend to get a relevant education. As well as not everyone wants to read a magazine, or learn on their own how to assemble or disassemble a computer. They will gladly pay money to have someone do that for them. You should not expect to go into a private institution expecting to get a break or deal in the pocket book.

You pay for convenience, and not every educational institute is the same quality as it's partner next door. I've seen some pretty questionable public colleges and programs teaching things you'd shake your head over - instructors that are well fed and obviously don't give a crap about the students.

While I can't comment on ITT tech, though when I was doing my own research I didn't go with them because largely I was unimpressed with their operations, however I did select DeVry over a public university or college. And I was thoroughly impressed...much more than the public college I attended temporary after I left DeVry.

Apples and Oranges. Each have their own purposes, and the caveat: Buyer Beware is very important. Don't believe the Educational Consultants or Entry people...they're just sales people with a flashy name. Would you just walk into a Futureshop or a Bestbuy and listen solely to the sales guy? If you do...you shouldn't. I don't have much sympathy for people that make major life choices, but don't do appropriate research.

With that said, you can still do your research, but have a bitter experience. In the end my experience and issues with DeVry did not revolve around the curriculum or teaching involvement. It's is an excellent, well positioned private University/college that gets lumped in with the lot of losers that are simply profiteers.


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