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 Post subject: Abit IC7 vs. IC7-G
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:39 pm 
Coppermine
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My brother has an IC7-G and can't seem to OC his 3.2 HT P4 more than 200 MHz, even with a copper heatsink and arctic silver. I have ben able to OC my 2.26 P4 (non HT) to 2.7ish with an ailuminum 2.4 stck heatsink on a regular IC7 board. I had to RMA my mobo and had to have a refund instead of repair because they ahd gone out of stock. Then I had to order an IC7-G as a replacement. The only obvious differences in them are that the IC7-G has 2 more SATA ports (amounting to a total of 4) and onboard LAN. I keep thinking that the reason for my brother's failure to OC is because of the already highly clocked 3.2 speed of the proc, not the mobo... He DOES lock the agp/pci speed so it doesnt get OCed with the proc too. So what is the reason for this failure of his OCing and will I be affected by the IC7-G when it comes in, or will I be able to OC just as well? I will be using a 2.4 GHz HT p4 when it comes in, and I see people OCing those to 3GHz + all the time, so I am hoping that my borhter's problems is jsut the CPU. So, will I have problems?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:53 pm 
Celeron
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what speed is his ram rated for?

i highly doubt that its the mobo.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:17 pm 
Coppermine
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his ram is DDR400 512MBx2 corsiar XMS. I'm using DDR333 512 corsair XMS and 512 Kingston X (same speed though. all of the ram i mentioned (including my bro's ) have heat spreaders.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:12 pm 
Celeron
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Xigz wrote:
his ram is DDR400 512MBx2 corsiar XMS. I'm using DDR333 512 corsair XMS and 512 Kingston X (same speed though. all of the ram i mentioned (including my bro's ) have heat spreaders.


well, there you go. you guys have different procs, which have different FSBs. you have ram thats rated faster than the original FSB (133 vs 166) and so you have 33mhz of headroom.

your brother, on the other hand, has ram intended for his FSB, leaving little headroom for overclocking. (200 vs 200)

im guessing he has Low Latency ram, so he should relax the latencies and try pushing up the FSB again.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:06 pm 
Coppermine
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I WAS using a 533 FSB processor when OCing it to about 2.7. So if I'm going to put a 2.4C p4 which i think is 800MHz FSB into the IC7-G that shipped to me today with my dual 512MB sticks of 333mhz ram , which are two different brands, I should still be able to clock to 3GHz like so many other people have? on my Aibt IC7 I was able to have the minumum CAS latency settings (i forget numbers) on the RAM stable and have 1:1 ratio and all of it worked. Will i be able to OC to 3 GHz?

If im not clear on this question lemme know and I'll try to make it clearer. Its late and im getting more scatter brained.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:37 pm 
Celeron
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first, i have to say that your cpu and ram are mismatched. why? because a 2.4c runs on a 200mhz (x4) fsb, when your sticks of ram are only rated for 166mhz. your ram will no doubt hold you back on your overclocking experience.

in your case, you would have to lower your dram timings and use the cpu:dram dividers to their full effect to reach any goal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:58 am 
Coppermine
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What if I just OC the ram to 400MHz from the 333MHz? Then from there OC as if the ram was 400mhz ram? Othwerwise the RAM will just be recognized as 666MHz because of the HT technology, so I'll still get SOME performance boost from it over the 533 FSB proc i had before right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:54 pm 
Boy in Black
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Xigz wrote:
...with my dual 512MB sticks of 333mhz ram , which are two different brands
Are the timmings different on these two? May not be a huge factor in why you can't OC, but could be giving the system fits.

It all sounds mish-mash IMO. Asking for different brands of 333 memory to run at 400 isn't just a sane thought really. and OC'ing the memory to one level (400Mhz) then trying to go from there as if it was always at that speed (400Mhz, again) isn't a good way to look at this. Simply pushing standard 333 memory to 400 levels is a fairly hefty OC, anything above that is extreme.
Quote:
Othwerwise the RAM will just be recognized as 666MHz because of the HT technology
HT has nothing to do with doubling memory speeds.

Frankenstein needs reworked if you want to OC more readily. 533 CPU (133 quad pumped) on 800 (200FSB quad pumped), 333 memory of different brands...this thing just isn't an OC monster. Getting rid of the 533 CPU to use a 2.4C (800 core) is a good move, but to get it to the 2,400Mhz it's supposed to run at will take seriously going above your 333 memory's rated speeds. SO, simply making the 2.4 a 2.4 will be an overclock in itself, and going up from there would be a verticle cliff IMO.
================================
I'm REALLY confused on what's going on here and who we're trying to OC. Are we trying to see if your 2.4 (800Mhz core) will OC to 3.0G on the IC7!? Yes...yes it will with a lot of work and different parts.

Your brother's problem with his 3.2 is a different thread, or handled later on...So much stuff at once, but YES...3.0G is possible on YOURS with the right memory in there. But let's work on that, then help out your bro.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:21 pm 
Coppermine
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Yeah, I've seen other reviews on the IC7 with a 2.4C being OCed to 3GHz and even 3.2 and 3.4 GHz. They said they could get to 3 GHz on stock fan too. Now, I've used a HT processor with my RAM before, not OCing anything, and the board recognized the HT technology and POSTed with a messege like RAM running at 666MHz...i dunno, something said 666 referring to RAM but I didn't OC anything myself. ...come to think of it, it was a Gigabyte board that I tried out and ended up not liking that had that messege I think. And I may be getting my facts wrong in that I may have had the 2.26B in the gigabyte board, although I KNO it displayed that messege when i put my RAM into the corresponding slots for the dual DDR. Anyway, the HT proc i had in it wasnt mine so I only had it for a little while (if at all). Am I talking about dual channel DDR this whole time or am I talking about a topic completely different when I say running at 666 or 800?

Oh BTW, my main concern is the OCing of my board. I just threw my Bro's situation in there to see if I could get anything useful out of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:55 am 
Boy in Black
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I'm easily confused, so don't worry about that!

As a fan of Asus and Abit boards (only one Gigabyte bought, but still running), I only "see" the actual FSB as it is. I never see the "effective" speed that a lot of people talk about. So, when you say "800", I instantly think "that's stock. 200 quad pumped as normal". See what I kinda mean? I just don't know where everyone gets their info on statements like "I set my memory to 450..." and all that. You're saying 666, but I don't know where that's being reported...but it really doesn't matter. I can be confused and still be of some worth I hope :)

So...anyway...basically, do you have this 2.4 yet?? A LOT has to do with it's SL #, batch, etc to get a good estimate based on other's accomplishments. It's very possible for two people to have a 2.4C each, and both get totally different OC ceilings. I think it's safe to say that 3.4-3.6 is achievable. On the stock HS/F is questionable as I find them to be less than acceptable (mind you, I always seem to get CPU's fairly quick and get the v1.0 coolers. They usually end up revising them as soon as I get them :p ).

And with 333 RAM (166 x 2), getting past 166Mhz FSB is all dicey and unclear to assume from my standpoint. I still feel that getting memory that's rated for 166 to run on a 200 bus is going to be a fight without underclocking or upgrading the memory to PC-3200.

Now, PC-3200 is PC 400, which is the stock 200Mhz FSB setting with an assumed 400Mhz effective speed ([i]DDR= "Double Data Rate". Data is passed on up and down cycle, instead of the old SDRAM with data only being delivered on the rising cycle)...the CPU's core is effectively quad pumps the 200Mhz cycles to get their 800Mhz core rating. It's really a PR game and leads to confusion. "effective" ratings should be banned from advertising IMO.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:55 pm 
Coppermine
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That actually does help, and perfectly coincides with what i learned from my computer teacher when he was explaning dirrent types or RAM and the evolution of it in class. I expanded the conversation from how its dual pumped and how it relates to the FSB.

From what I understand:

I have a 2.4C processor.

that's 200x12

200=untouched FSB

800=the quad pumped FSB (of 200)

my RAM is 333MHz (166x2)

if using HT with my RAM I can only use 666MHz of the FSB (after quad and dual pumping as necessary) creating the bottleneck at my RAM.

So, I have a few new questions, some still pertaining to getting myself set for a good OCing, and some to rid some more confused pieces in me.

1) running my new processor (2.4GHz) with everything stock settings, will I automatically be OCing my RAM to 200x2? Or is there a detection that it's stock speed is 166x2 thus automatically accomidating the FSB of the processor so as not to OC the RAM's timings? And if it does reduce FSB in this way, does this also reduce clock speed of the proc?

How does the RAM latency play into OCing BTW? I'm using a stick of 512MB whic his Corsiar XMS w/ heatspreader (im not sure if it's low latency or not though. how do i check?) and 512 MB of Kingston HyperX w/ heatspreader, which on newegg I've found is 2-2-2-5. I've not seen any other latency versions of this RAM on newegg.com

This is the motherboard I will be using with my 2.4C that just came in today. (My motherboard came in today, the proc I already had been saving) http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 152&depa=0

PS: I'm looking for a better fan than the retail one that come's with a P4. Mine is aluminum and has black thermal tape on it. I had a Tt Soyo dragon before that died because the wires came out of the tri-speed fan controller but it worked well enough for me to OC well as an ametuer. Now I'm better at it, but still not a pro, and I'd like some suggestions on a good copper heatsink. I've got some arctic silver here I can use.


Last edited by Xigz on Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:52 pm 
Coppermine
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crap, accidentally hit quote instead of edit!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:58 am 
Celeron
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1) You're not overclocking anything... You're running 6:5 dividers off of the stock 200 fsb and your memory is running at 166mhz. Your bios probably detected it to be ddr333 memory, and set the ratio.

2) Wheres question 2? you cant have question 1 w/o a second question... :P

Latency plays a big role on the Oc'ability of your ram. if you have low latencies, you can relax them to see if you get headroom by pushing up the fsb.

Quote:
if using HT with my RAM I can only use 666MHz of the FSB (after quad and dual pumping as necessary) creating the bottleneck at my RAM.


i have no idea what you're talking about here...

btw its 667 fsb... 166.7x4.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:13 pm 
Coppermine
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ocnoob wrote:
1) You're not overclocking anything... You're running 6:5 dividers off of the stock 200 fsb and your memory is running at 166mhz. Your bios probably detected it to be ddr333 memory, and set the ratio.

2) Wheres question 2? you cant have question 1 w/o a second question... :P

Latency plays a big role on the Oc'ability of your ram. if you have low latencies, you can relax them to see if you get headroom by pushing up the fsb.

Quote:
if using HT with my RAM I can only use 666MHz of the FSB (after quad and dual pumping as necessary) creating the bottleneck at my RAM.


i have no idea what you're talking about here...

btw its 667 fsb... 166.7x4.



Ok, as i was making question 2 i answered it myself while typing it, >.< and forgot to change the "few questions" part of my post. So, to unconfuse you,...

If I'm using the hyperthreaging technology (HT) with my RAM (which is 166x2 or 333 effectively) then the MHz will be about 666MHz effectively. Therefor, I can't utilize the 800FSB at the proc because of the 666Mhz RAM, creating a bottleneck at the RAM.

I hope this clears things up a bit so I can keep getting more help :)


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