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 Post subject: waterblocks
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 am 
Willamette
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why dont the waterblocks out today use both water cooling and air cooling on the CPU heatsink...i was thinking about it last night...

the radiator is a pipe attached to some metal fins (metal fins much like a air HSF). so why not use both? ie: take a thermalright slk-900 and drill two holes in it, and fir a copper pipe in it.

just having more metal on the waterblock seems like it would help to me

what ya think?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:42 am 
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no one?
.
.
.
bump


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:45 pm 
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still no one?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:07 pm 
Willamette
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any thoughts? anyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:29 pm 
Celeron
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oooh, good idea, but you would have to see how much more effective that is over the regular water cooling solution.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:04 pm 
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BiggPa wrote:
any thoughts? anyone?


I wasn't gonna tell anyone - I have been thinking about it too. Take one of those thermal right heat spreaders with the pipes oging through them. First, I was gonna see what happens when I run air through the pipes - then water.

Now you told the whole PLANET!!!!!!

Manta


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:05 pm 
Willamette
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MantaBase wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
any thoughts? anyone?


I wasn't gonna tell anyone - I have been thinking about it too. Take one of those thermal right heat spreaders with the pipes oging through them. First, I was gonna see what happens when I run air through the pipes - then water.

Now you told the whole PLANET!!!!!!

Manta


mwhahahaha...i want to see that too

i didnt think of putting air through it though...another good idea


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:21 am 
Little Foot
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I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:30 am 
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Booradley wrote:
I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


i dont think you understand completly. the waterblock would be virtually the same, EXCEPT there would be metal fins (like all air HSF) off the top.

kida like a regular HSF glued to the top of an all metal waterblock
the water would still do lots of work, but the metal fins would only further disapate heat. thus, no fan would be needed on the waterblock, only on the radiators (unless you use fanless radiators). the fins are only there to HELP, not do the majority of the work.

however, a low-speed, low noise fan would help also, but wouldnt really be needed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:43 pm 
Little Foot
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I stand corrected.

BingPa, If you make it look cool, I'll buy one :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:54 pm 
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Booradley wrote:
I stand corrected.

BingPa, If you make it look cool, I'll buy one :D


hahah

what i have thought of now is just drilling two holes in a regular heatsink. bending a pipe into a U shape, and putting it through. then using some Arctic silver adhesive to hold it in and transfer heat. the "in" pipe woul dbe closest to the CPU die, and it would turn and run through the HS again.


http://www.geocities.com/bigg_pa/product_sp94.jpg

copy and paste link into browser

basically that, but instead of the middle heatpipe, a bigger pipe for water[/img]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:23 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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BiggPa wrote:
Booradley wrote:
I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


i dont think you understand completly. the waterblock would be virtually the same, EXCEPT there would be metal fins (like all air HSF) off the top.

kida like a regular HSF glued to the top of an all metal waterblock
the water would still do lots of work, but the metal fins would only further disapate heat. thus, no fan would be needed on the waterblock, only on the radiators (unless you use fanless radiators). the fins are only there to HELP, not do the majority of the work.

however, a low-speed, low noise fan would help also, but wouldnt really be needed.


I doubt it would do any good...the water moves through the WB at such a rate that the fins wouldnt benefit very much, if any.

Thats my thoughs on it anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:22 pm 
Willamette
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SomeGuy wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
Booradley wrote:
I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


i dont think you understand completly. the waterblock would be virtually the same, EXCEPT there would be metal fins (like all air HSF) off the top.

kida like a regular HSF glued to the top of an all metal waterblock
the water would still do lots of work, but the metal fins would only further disapate heat. thus, no fan would be needed on the waterblock, only on the radiators (unless you use fanless radiators). the fins are only there to HELP, not do the majority of the work.

however, a low-speed, low noise fan would help also, but wouldnt really be needed.


I doubt it would do any good...the water moves through the WB at such a rate that the fins wouldnt benefit very much, if any.

Thats my thoughs on it anyway.



but obviously there is extra heat that needs to be moved (becuase the cpu could be cooler than water-cooling). then there would still be some heat to the fins.

also, if heatpipes were used, it could be moved from the very botton of the HS to the top toward the fins


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:28 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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BiggPa wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
Booradley wrote:
I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


i dont think you understand completly. the waterblock would be virtually the same, EXCEPT there would be metal fins (like all air HSF) off the top.

kida like a regular HSF glued to the top of an all metal waterblock
the water would still do lots of work, but the metal fins would only further disapate heat. thus, no fan would be needed on the waterblock, only on the radiators (unless you use fanless radiators). the fins are only there to HELP, not do the majority of the work.

however, a low-speed, low noise fan would help also, but wouldnt really be needed.


I doubt it would do any good...the water moves through the WB at such a rate that the fins wouldnt benefit very much, if any.

Thats my thoughs on it anyway.



but obviously there is extra heat that needs to be moved (becuase the cpu could be cooler than water-cooling). then there would still be some heat to the fins.

also, if heatpipes were used, it could be moved from the very botton of the HS to the top toward the fins


Touch the top of a WB when its in use (assuming its a "decent" WB). It probably wont be all that hot. Hence my thought that fins wont do any good, there just isnt much heat there to be moved.

Heatpipes, maybe would do it. This would be a pretty expensive WB I think, and complicated, so I doubt you would see anything like it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:32 pm 
Willamette
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SomeGuy wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
Booradley wrote:
I think the idea of a waterblock is to disapte the heat through the water. Furthermore, that heated water is then removed via the radiator from the system through a couple fans in most cases. Your idea is interesting, but you would still need a fan on your Thermalright heat sink. Keep in mind, a huge reason why people get into watercooling is to reduce the need for fans and ultimately get a much quieter computer.

I think your idea would be really cool for something like a "micro watercooling" solution.


i dont think you understand completly. the waterblock would be virtually the same, EXCEPT there would be metal fins (like all air HSF) off the top.

kida like a regular HSF glued to the top of an all metal waterblock
the water would still do lots of work, but the metal fins would only further disapate heat. thus, no fan would be needed on the waterblock, only on the radiators (unless you use fanless radiators). the fins are only there to HELP, not do the majority of the work.

however, a low-speed, low noise fan would help also, but wouldnt really be needed.


I doubt it would do any good...the water moves through the WB at such a rate that the fins wouldnt benefit very much, if any.

Thats my thoughs on it anyway.



but obviously there is extra heat that needs to be moved (becuase the cpu could be cooler than water-cooling). then there would still be some heat to the fins.

also, if heatpipes were used, it could be moved from the very botton of the HS to the top toward the fins


Touch the top of a WB when its in use (assuming its a "decent" WB). It probably wont be all that hot. Hence my thought that fins wont do any good, there just isnt much heat there to be moved.

Heatpipes, maybe would do it. This would be a pretty expensive WB I think, and complicated, so I doubt you would see anything like it.


i dont have a water-cooled system to touch... :?

see the pic link i posted. same thing, just make the middle heat pipe thicker and able to carry water


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:05 am 
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Take one of these:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1043/


Assuming the heat pipes are hollow, cut the caps off.

Test 1:

Go to walmart - buy fish tank airpump.

hook up airpump to circulate (push) air from the bottom to the top.

Test in operation.
reverse direction
Test again.

Next, buy cheap fish tank water pump and test again (be careful - MB no like wet stuff :> )

Manta


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:53 am 
Willamette
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MantaBase wrote:
Take one of these:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1043/


Assuming the heat pipes are hollow, cut the caps off.

Test 1:

Go to walmart - buy fish tank airpump.

hook up airpump to circulate (push) air from the bottom to the top.

Test in operation.
reverse direction
Test again.

Next, buy cheap fish tank water pump and test again (be careful - MB no like wet stuff :> )

Manta



i was actually going to replace the heatpipes. i dont think you could push that much material (air/water) through the tiny pipe.


but yes, same idea as me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:54 am 
I'd rather be modding!
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BiggPa wrote:
MantaBase wrote:
Take one of these:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1043/


Assuming the heat pipes are hollow, cut the caps off.

Test 1:

Go to walmart - buy fish tank airpump.

hook up airpump to circulate (push) air from the bottom to the top.

Test in operation.
reverse direction
Test again.

Next, buy cheap fish tank water pump and test again (be careful - MB no like wet stuff :> )

Manta



i was actually going to replace the heatpipes. i dont think you could push that much material (air/water) through the tiny pipe.


but yes, same idea as me


In series no - but running them parallel you could put more water through than a standard water block. You would need a manifold.

I was being cheap anyways.

if it failed you would still have a cool passive HS

Manta


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:07 pm 
Boy in Black
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The water doesn't stay in the block long enough. Making it stagnate there for a bit longer would more than likely hurt performance. Danger Den is selling Copper topped waterblocks, but isn't showing any performance gains. Nor is the Silver ones as far as that goes. Adding fins and a fan would almost defeat the purpose of having a quiet system as well...

I have no idea now who it is, but someone has a HS/F with water in it and it's a big POS.

The idea with the SLK and pumping water through the fins wouldn't be as effective as the water passing right over the die. And a standard block is more effective, so why spend alot of money on an H20 kit and have a sup-par block?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:57 am 
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This idea has been done(I need to find out who). This idea only helps out a poorly desifned WB. As stated the heat doesn't stay in the waterblock and build up(if its good). At full load my waterblock is barely warm to the touch.

The object with today's quality waterblocks is to get the heat to the water and away as soon as possible, and they do this very well. The base is very thin so that the layer of copper between the die and water is as minimal as needed. Then they impinge it right under the inlet where there is an accelerator nozzle, this all agitates and lifts the heated water out and carries it off.


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