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 Post subject: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:29 pm 
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Lets try this again. Somehow this thread was deleted in one of the hiccups.


I wonder if anyone tried using this technology to cool a PC. I know they use this too cool high powered laser and other machines.
You can find them here http://www.exair.com/vortextube/vt_page.htm along with an explanation on how they work.

What I was thinking is you could use essentially a waterblock design for the air to be piped through and then the exhaust from the block could exit the rear of the case. Condensation as with any extreme cooling would need to be taken into account. The tubes cost as much or less than many good watercooling kits but give the temperatures of phase change cooling. of course noise is a factor but the vortex tube themselves can be quieted with mufflers of some type from what I hear, so the only thing left is quieting a compressor(or housing the compressor remotely and running a line to the PC).

I don't have the tools necessary to build a block to test something like this. I thought I would put the idea out there for those who possibly might want an expirement to try.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:37 pm 
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id like to see that also.

if the air is -50C, you would still need a bunch of insulation/a heating unit for the CPU

interesting concept though


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:40 pm 
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just thought of something...if regualr air goes down to -50C, how how is the air coming out the back?


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 Post subject: Condensation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:04 am 
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Even if you could take out the water content from the exhaust I'd still be worried about the air in the computer case as well. Even dry -50C air coming into the case would cause the water already in the case's air to condense and then freeze.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:52 am 
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BiggPa wrote:
just thought of something...if regualr air goes down to -50C, how how is the air coming out the back?


"When the device is properly adjusted, the hot pipe will deliver air at about 100 degrees Fahrenheit"

http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/

Another hurdle. Piping this air somewhere other than near me lol.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:53 am 
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IamDeMan wrote:
BiggPa wrote:
just thought of something...if regualr air goes down to -50C, how how is the air coming out the back?


"When the device is properly adjusted, the hot pipe will deliver air at about 100 degrees Fahrenheit"

http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/

Another hurdle. Piping this air somewhere other than near me lol.


i see a steamed vegetable mod comming


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:53 am 
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IamDeMan wrote:
Lets try this again. Somehow this thread was deleted in one of the hiccups.



OK

I have been playing with copper tubing to try to direct airflow to specific parts in a box.

I haven't done a build yet - but its simplier than what you are suggesting (though not as kewl).

Copper is easy to work with. I will try to comeup with some drawings:)

Manta


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:58 pm 
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IamDeMan wrote:
I wonder if anyone tried using this technology to cool a PC.


No. Why? Extremely impractical.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:17 pm 
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We use vortex tubes where I work (I can't say how we use them) but we can adjust the "balance" in air flow in the tubes we have. The more hot air we let out the less (and colder) air moves out the cold side. I've seen these tube turned up so high that the air nozzle was freezing up.

As for using these to cool a PC, it might work, but it would require alot of air to make it work.


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:47 pm 
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maxx wrote:
IamDeMan wrote:
I wonder if anyone tried using this technology to cool a PC.


No. Why? Extremely impractical.


Yes, I realize this. At one time most forms of water cooling were impractical until honed and tweaked.

Sometimes good ideas can come from testing the impractical.

Liquid nitrogen is extremely impractical, but some have still cold with it for brief stints.

I'm just looking for someone who may have toyed with it. Not someone who uses it as their main cooler.


Last edited by IamDeMan on Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:50 pm 
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MantaBase wrote:
Copper is easy to work with. I will try to comeup with some drawings:)


I'd like to see that.


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:14 am 
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IamDeMan wrote:
maxx wrote:

No. Why? Extremely impractical.


Yes, I realize this. At one time most forms of water cooling were impractical until honed and tweaked.

Sometimes good ideas can come from testing the impractical.

Liquid nitrogen is extremely impractical, but some have still cold with it for brief stints.

I'm just looking for someone who may have toyed with it. Not someone who uses it as their main cooler.


I have used similar things - although we used them for a different reason. As the poster said above, you need very high expulsion rates to get the cooled air. Usually there is some type of needle valve to control the flow. You could put an adtaptor on the end to reduce the flow after it exits. However - the device I am familiar with has many disadvantages:

    its laud
    its wet
    it vibrates


You could mod a CO2 cookie maker to drop dry ice into special manifolds. It has the same disadvantages but its much colder. In fact, you might be able to use the vortex tube with CO2 and have better luck - but you better be sure you are venting to the out doors :)

http://sciencekit.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_432204

Manta


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:05 am 
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IamDeMan wrote:
MantaBase wrote:
Copper is easy to work with. I will try to comeup with some drawings:)


I'd like to see that.


You can make a manifold for a 120mm fan

Image

you can then attach different copper tubes and direct them to different components. You could even pinch the end flat and place it next to a heat sink

Image

Sorry for the crappt drawings - I haven't had much time to ply with it.

Manta


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:56 am 
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BiggPa wrote:
just thought of something...if regualr air goes down to -50C, how how is the air coming out the back?


It's an eductor. The expanding hot air goes out the big hole in the back.

I don't like their discription of how it works or the theory it works on. Anything with pressure change has a temp change. What was that called...hmm...convergent/divergent theory?? Air comming out of a simple air nozzle you use to blow off stuff in the shop shows this. Feel it. It's cold. It's also why you see the cool vapors when a turbine starts up:D


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:19 am 
Willamette
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IamDeMan wrote:

Yes, I realize this. At one time most forms of water cooling were impractical until honed and tweaked.

Sometimes good ideas can come from testing the impractical.

Liquid nitrogen is extremely impractical, but some have still cold with it for brief stints.



dont worry, they laughed at me when i gave me fanless computer idea. basically use heatpipes and HS without fans attached to the case to move heat. they laghed at me.

GUESS WHAT - Zalman has a case like this now. MaxPC gave the system a 9


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:29 am 
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Chumly wrote:

It's an eductor. The expanding hot air goes out the big hole in the back.

I don't like their discription of how it works or the theory it works on. Anything with pressure change has a temp change. What was that called...hmm...convergent/divergent theory?? Air comming out of a simple air nozzle you use to blow off stuff in the shop shows this. Feel it. It's cold. It's also why you see the cool vapors when a turbine starts up:D



I don't know what physics calls it. Planetary Scientists call it adiabatic cool and heating.

Manta


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:48 pm 
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IamDeMan wrote:
Yes, I realize this. At one time most forms of water cooling were impractical until honed and tweaked. Liquid nitrogen is extremely impractical, but some have still cold with it for brief stints.


Nope, H2O cooling was never impractical, a loop with a coolant running inside, powered by an in-line pump is nothing new, nor tweaked... Same with LN2 cooling, it's far from impractical, ask Cray engineers, they've been using it on permanent basis for countless years ever since they started making large supercomputers... I don't mean impractical as in it's hard for an average user to setup, I mean impractical as in the whole principal is just not a good candidate for this application. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Votex Tubes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:30 am 
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maxx wrote:
IamDeMan wrote:
Yes, I realize this. At one time most forms of water cooling were impractical until honed and tweaked. Liquid nitrogen is extremely impractical, but some have still cold with it for brief stints.


Nope, H2O cooling was never impractical, a loop with a coolant running inside, powered by an in-line pump is nothing new, nor tweaked... Same with LN2 cooling, it's far from impractical, ask Cray engineers, they've been using it on permanent basis for countless years ever since they started making large supercomputers... I don't mean impractical as in it's hard for an average user to setup, I mean impractical as in the whole principal is just not a good candidate for this application. Sorry.


LN2 is very impractical to use at home. I am not speaking of industrial super computers. In the infancy of watercooling it was impractical for the average user without the proper tools to make blocks and mounting gear to use this form. It was those who had the machinery to make the blocks and come up with the moutning gear who have made it accessible to everyone. So my statement still holds true that good things come out of testing the impractical. You can't say it can never be done if you never try.

If you are not referring to the setup, but rather the princip[le, then enlighten me as to why it is sooo much more impractical than dealing with a substance like LN2.


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 Post subject: supercomputer
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:24 pm 
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as someone said previously this is impractical to use for the standard pc but for super computers could proove practical. i've seen a total of 2 super computers in my life with giant and i mean giant heat sinks covering the whole computer. point one of the vortex tubes at that and i'm sure it'd help. but when it come to joe smith in ohio sitting on his pc... theres no point.


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