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 Post subject: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:11 pm 
Java Junkie
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I just read the following post on a mailing list:

anonymous dumbass wrote:
is there any way in java to have the changes I make to arguments to
a method remain after the method exits? ie.
x=1
change(x)
x!=1

I forget what this is called. If this can't be done in java, the proper
term for it would be a nice consolation.


Now, why does this make me want to cry, you ask?

(i) the mailing list is populated exclusively by CS students, and alumni, from a top-end university,
(ii) it was once my school,
(iii) the student who asked the question is in his third or fourth year, and
(iv) java is the first language taught at this school, and is used in most of the courses.

Jip weeps. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:10 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Jipstyle wrote:
I just read the following post on a mailing list:

anonymous dumbass wrote:
is there any way in java to have the changes I make to arguments to
a method remain after the method exits? ie.
x=1
change(x)
x!=1

I forget what this is called. If this can't be done in java, the proper
term for it would be a nice consolation.


Now, why does this make me want to cry, you ask?

(i) the mailing list is populated exclusively by CS students, and alumni, from a top-end university,
(ii) it was once my school,
(iii) the student who asked the question is in his third or fourth year, and
(iv) java is the first language taught at this school, and is used in most of the courses.

Jip weeps. :cry:

LOL... I swear, it happens at every school. :)

I guess x = change(x); is just a bit too complicated or not obvious enough for some.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:44 am 
Java Junkie
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Gadget wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
I just read the following post on a mailing list:

anonymous dumbass wrote:
is there any way in java to have the changes I make to arguments to
a method remain after the method exits? ie.
x=1
change(x)
x!=1

I forget what this is called. If this can't be done in java, the proper
term for it would be a nice consolation.


Now, why does this make me want to cry, you ask?

(i) the mailing list is populated exclusively by CS students, and alumni, from a top-end university,
(ii) it was once my school,
(iii) the student who asked the question is in his third or fourth year, and
(iv) java is the first language taught at this school, and is used in most of the courses.

Jip weeps. :cry:

LOL... I swear, it happens at every school. :)

I guess x = change(x); is just a bit too complicated or not obvious enough for some.


Yeah, but ... passing by value or by reference is a first-year topic. And it gets repeated in every class that introduces a new language. In our case, we learned java, C, C++, and then the world opened up depending on the classes you took. When C and C++ were taught, each prof went to great lengths to explain how and why each language passed variables to functions / methods / whatever.

Now, I can understand him forgetting how java does it, but the fact that he doesn't know where to find the answer, or what the idea is CALLED .. that made me sad. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:56 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Maybe he is from the land of Woot?

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/unix- ... iddie.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:57 am 
Java Junkie
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:lol:

I love it. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:15 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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My CS program was all in C so you can understand the amount of time we spent on pointers and this topic in general. Some got it, some didn't. Looking back, about 85% of my fellow students didn't possess the mental capacity to understand the most basic of programming concepts and barely squeaked by.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:48 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Brings back memories of C++ programming classes.

I remember we were learning pointers, and one of the rules of pointers is that pointers of one type can't point to another. In some of the programs we wrote, we used pointers for ALL variables (just to enforce ideas). Some of the guys were doing this:

Code:
int *iPtr;
double *dPtr;

//do something with pointers...

iPtr = dPtr;


Some of them would ask why the compiler threw errors. I often times wondered if I should laugh or cry. In Data Structures, some of the known cheaters in the class would ask me why their Linked Lists were going to hell, you look at the code and they often forget to do the most basic things - like point to an object of its own type when you add another node.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:19 pm 
Thunderbird
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Brings back memories of C++ programming classes.

I remember we were learning pointers, and one of the rules of pointers is that pointers of one type can't point to another. In some of the programs we wrote, we used pointers for ALL variables (just to enforce ideas). Some of the guys were doing this:

Code:
int *iPtr;
double *dPtr;

//do something with pointers...

iPtr = dPtr;


Some of them would ask why the compiler threw errors. I often times wondered if I should laugh or cry. In Data Structures, some of the known cheaters in the class would ask me why their Linked Lists were going to hell, you look at the code and they often forget to do the most basic things - like point to an object of its own type when you add another node.


Does anyone have a good online tutorial for pointers in C++. In my classes we talked about it, but the instructors never had us use it in any way in program. I understood the concept, but I have to implement stuff in code to understand it better. The instructor said pointers were not used much anymore except in database development.

I thought this was strange since the book did a great job explaining the concept and they would do that for a aspect of the language not used often in normal app development. I had suspected that the instructor was giving mostly opinions in the class.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:48 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Here's one that I know of:

http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/lesson6.html

If you're still confused, post here, we can try to help you! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:59 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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baldeagle wrote:
The instructor said pointers were not used much anymore except in database development.

I thought this was strange since the book did a great job explaining the concept and they would do that for a aspect of the language not used often in normal app development. I had suspected that the instructor was giving mostly opinions in the class.

What he said is a load of crap. What he might have meant is that pointers are frequently used when implementing data structures and you'll use the STL instead of implementing the data structures.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:47 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Gadget wrote:
baldeagle wrote:
The instructor said pointers were not used much anymore except in database development.

I thought this was strange since the book did a great job explaining the concept and they would do that for a aspect of the language not used often in normal app development. I had suspected that the instructor was giving mostly opinions in the class.

What he said is a load of crap. What he might have meant is that pointers are frequently used when implementing data structures and you'll use the STL instead of implementing the data structures.


Exactly what I was thinking but didn't have time to post.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:28 pm 
8086
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Gadget wrote:
LOL... I swear, it happens at every school. :)

I guess x = change(x); is just a bit too complicated or not obvious enough for some.


Nope. It's too obvious and/or simple. Therefore, we must find a way to make it more complex. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:08 am 
Little Foot
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:11 am
Posts: 124
Location: 127.0.0.1
Jipstyle wrote:
I just read the following post on a mailing list:

anonymous dumbass wrote:
is there any way in java to have the changes I make to arguments to
a method remain after the method exits? ie.
x=1
change(x)
x!=1

I forget what this is called. If this can't be done in java, the proper
term for it would be a nice consolation.


Now, why does this make me want to cry, you ask?

(i) the mailing list is populated exclusively by CS students, and alumni, from a top-end university,
(ii) it was once my school,
(iii) the student who asked the question is in his third or fourth year, and
(iv) java is the first language taught at this school, and is used in most of the courses.

Jip weeps. :cry:


I think that is a valid question. Not everyone is born to be a programmer. Being an instructor for a while, I tend to view things differently. We should encourage them to ask questions, not making fun of them or calling them dumbass. Only wish people will treat each other a little nicer.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:23 am 
Java Junkie
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emanresu wrote:
I think that is a valid question. Not everyone is born to be a programmer. Being an instructor for a while, I tend to view things differently. We should encourage them to ask questions, not making fun of them or calling them dumbass. Only wish people will treat each other a little nicer.


It is a valid question ... in first year. Even in second year, when you need a refresher. But this was an honours student nearing the end of his degree. This should be ingrained by now.

I was also an instructor, though, so i understand your point.

BTW .. nightcrawler? I recognise the title, but not the name. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:36 am 
Little Foot
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Jipstyle wrote:
emanresu wrote:
I think that is a valid question. Not everyone is born to be a programmer. Being an instructor for a while, I tend to view things differently. We should encourage them to ask questions, not making fun of them or calling them dumbass. Only wish people will treat each other a little nicer.


It is a valid question ... in first year. Even in second year, when you need a refresher. But this was an honours student nearing the end of his degree. This should be ingrained by now.

I was also an instructor, though, so i understand your point.

BTW .. nightcrawler? I recognise the title, but not the name. :)


true, yeah, as instructors, we get frustrated at the students, too. Speaking of honor students, I never understand what honor college is. in my undergrad school, we have a honor's college, and it seems to me it has something to do with art (the whole place is decorated with paintings of naked people or naked statues).

I was also in an advanced chemistry class in highschool. during the mid term, we were forbidden from using calculators, and one student complained that without a calculator he couldn't do multiplication, because he learned it so long ago and forgot how to do it by hand... thanks goodness we did not do any explosive experiment during that semester...


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:10 pm 
8086
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:59 am
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emanresu wrote:
I was also in an advanced chemistry class in highschool. during the mid term, we were forbidden from using calculators, and one student complained that without a calculator he couldn't do multiplication, because he learned it so long ago and forgot how to do it by hand... thanks goodness we did not do any explosive experiment during that semester...


Some of my classmates whip out their calculators to get 10 * 10 = 100. Then they get all surprised when I'm finished ahead of them...

But about programming, how did you guys get involved with this? Most people I know do not have the logical capacity or mindset to do it, and even people who program for a job are inherently different from those that program for fun, although a person that programs for fun usually does it for a job too. It seems to me that this is your diversion, and that most CS students do it purely to get a job, that's why they can't/don't want to think about a simple problem and solve it; they want someone else to do it...sorry, I'm ranting.


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:17 pm 
Little Foot
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Cplusplus wrote:
emanresu wrote:
I was also in an advanced chemistry class in highschool. during the mid term, we were forbidden from using calculators, and one student complained that without a calculator he couldn't do multiplication, because he learned it so long ago and forgot how to do it by hand... thanks goodness we did not do any explosive experiment during that semester...


Some of my classmates whip out their calculators to get 10 * 10 = 100. Then they get all surprised when I'm finished ahead of them...

But about programming, how did you guys get involved with this? Most people I know do not have the logical capacity or mindset to do it, and even people who program for a job are inherently different from those that program for fun, although a person that programs for fun usually does it for a job too. It seems to me that this is your diversion, and that most CS students do it purely to get a job, that's why they can't/don't want to think about a simple problem and solve it; they want someone else to do it...sorry, I'm ranting.


at least they were asking for 10x10. One time, as the story goes, one student punched in 0 / 0 (he did something wrong with algebra to get to this step), and then he wrote "E" on the test as the answer. the teacher asked him what it was, and he said, "I dont know, the calculator says so".

why do I get involved in programming? well, when I told a joke to my friends, no one laughed. when I told my dog to fetch, he ran away and never came back. when I told my program to cout 1+1, it came back with 2... from that moment on, I knew what my choice is.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:23 pm 
8086
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Should have written a small "e" and impressed his teacher when he said "e approx. 2.71828" (whatever).

Adrenaline rush...knowing that with a few keystrokes I could send the machine into oblivion, but not doing it...so much fun. Also gets me out of doing english assignments (program here and there for the teacher, convince him or her it's for school, and BAM! no more essays)!

Arrg, can't spell today!


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:54 pm 
Java Junkie
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emanresu wrote:
true, yeah, as instructors, we get frustrated at the students, too. Speaking of honor students, I never understand what honor college is. in my undergrad school, we have a honor's college, and it seems to me it has something to do with art (the whole place is decorated with paintings of naked people or naked statues).


In Canada, an Honour's degree is generally 4 years instead of 3 and usually has a thesis component in which you much demonstrate advanced and original thought in your field. I'm not sure about the US, since the only research I did on American schools was for graduate programs when I was considering doing my doctorate south of the border.

emanresu wrote:
I was also in an advanced chemistry class in highschool. during the mid term, we were forbidden from using calculators, and one student complained that without a calculator he couldn't do multiplication, because he learned it so long ago and forgot how to do it by hand... thanks goodness we did not do any explosive experiment during that semester...


LOL! That is sad and funny at the same time. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Makes me want to cry
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:27 am 
8086
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Cplusplus wrote:
emanresu wrote:
I was also in an advanced chemistry class in highschool. during the mid term, we were forbidden from using calculators, and one student complained that without a calculator he couldn't do multiplication, because he learned it so long ago and forgot how to do it by hand... thanks goodness we did not do any explosive experiment during that semester...


Some of my classmates whip out their calculators to get 10 * 10 = 100. Then they get all surprised when I'm finished ahead of them...

But about programming, how did you guys get involved with this? Most people I know do not have the logical capacity or mindset to do it, and even people who program for a job are inherently different from those that program for fun, although a person that programs for fun usually does it for a job too. It seems to me that this is your diversion, and that most CS students do it purely to get a job, that's why they can't/don't want to think about a simple problem and solve it; they want someone else to do it...sorry, I'm ranting.


I completely agree with you. I'm going into my 4th year CS at university and so many people I know have zero experience and are only in CS to get a job; hell most of them hate computers. Personally, I work as a Win32 programmer and love it!


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