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 Post subject: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:15 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:11 am
Posts: 1
I am still within the early stages of the never-ending process of learning about computer parts. I currently have an AMD heavy setup that I am not as happy with as I would like to be. Currently I have a store bought HP h8-1414 envy in which I replaced the PSU with a 600W Thermaltake and the graphics card with an XFX HD7950 Core Edition. It is running with a six-core FX-6120 at 3.5Mhz. I am mainly into flight sims, as well as any other games that are intensive. DCS runs decent, except for when I look into areas with a high object count; sometimes it will drop to 5 frames depending on the scenario. I also play FSX as well as X-plane. Fsx does decent as well, other than when I am using TacPack as I assume the MFCD screens in the cockpit slow it down a lot. Without rambling anymore about my plight, I was looking at different building websites yesterday, such as CyberPower, and I believe I have put together some decent rigs. I just need feedback as to what is considered overkill now but might be a "future-proof" setup down the line.
I am working within a budget of $2k to $2500 and the following are some of the parts I have been looking at:

*Corsair Obsidian Series 750D Full Tower Gaming Case w/ USB 3.0 & Full Side-Panel Window

*Intel® Core™ i7-4770K 3.50 GHz 8MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1150

*Asetek 570LX 240mm Liquid Cooling Extreme Performance CPU Cooler

*2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)

*HDD2:128GB ADATA SP900 SATA-III 6.0Gb/s - 550 MB/s Read & 520 MB/s Write

*16GB (8GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory [+89] (Corsair Vengeance

*ASRock Z87 Extreme4 ATX w/ Xfast Technology, Purity Sound Audio, Display Port, Intel GbLAN, 3 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 2 PCI

*Microsoft® Windows 8.1 (64-bit Edition)

*850 Watts - Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

*NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 x16 Video Card (EVGA Superclocked Edition

The price for the aforementioned build is around $2400 to have Cyberpower build it. My questions are:

1. I have read about the i5-4670K being more than enough for gaming; could the hyper-threading of the i7 possibly be used for gaming in the future?

2. I also noticed the i7-4820K supports faster ram; is the performance gain from 1600 Ram to 1866 significant?

3. Is it easy to OC the k processor? or should I have them overclock it?

4. Is Intel planning on introducing a new generation at some point this year? As in, should I wait to do anything?

5. My current motherboard only has one pci 16x slot and it is 2.0. Is there a huge difference between a 2.0 and 3.0 bus when my GPU is 3.0?

I highly appreciate all feedback. I currently have been using Windows 8 for a year now, and I am used to it, that is why I chose it over a 7 version. Thanks for your time


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:20 am 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5550
Howdy, and welcome to the forums! Let's start with the questions you had...

1. I have read about the i5-4670K being more than enough for gaming; could the hyper-threading of the i7 possibly be used for gaming in the future?
For general gaming, yes. A lot of titles don't make use of the processor all that much (I've read that people played Battlefield 3 just fine on a Celeron G1610). Hyperthreading also isn't very efficient even if you're running a task that takes advantage of it.

2. I also noticed the i7-4820K supports faster ram; is the performance gain from 1600 Ram to 1866 significant?
For what I've seen, the only thing that ever benefits from faster RAM is integrated graphics, particularly AMD's APUs. Otherwise RAM faster than DDR3-1600 is not worthwhile. I'd even argue, if you're trying to pinch pennies, DDR3-1333 will do you just fine.

3. Is it easy to OC the k processor? or should I have them overclock it?
It kind of is, and it depends on the motherboard's features. Mine has an easy, idiotproof overclocking setting. While overclocking does have its merits, it depends on how CPU dependent your task is.

4. Is Intel planning on introducing a new generation at some point this year? As in, should I wait to do anything?
Yes, Broadwell. While I'm sure they'll be releasing a socketed desktop version (rumors are it'll come in soldered-on BGA only), I wouldn't worry about it anyway. So far Intel's performance improvements have been very incremental at best. For instance, Haswell (the current generation) only offered up to 10% better performance over Ivy Bridge (the previous generation). So I wouldn't worry about being obsolete. I think of the term anyway to mean when your hardware cannot absolutely run the software you want to run to your liking, not just "something faster came out".

5. My current motherboard only has one pci 16x slot and it is 2.0. Is there a huge difference between a 2.0 and 3.0 bus when my GPU is 3.0?
No. There's a few tests floating around that show a PCI-Express 3.0 card can retain its performance all the way down to PCI-Express 2.0 x4.

And now to nitpick at your selection:
Asetek 570LX 240mm Liquid Cooling Extreme Performance CPU Cooler:
I wouldn't get a liquid cooler, unless you're doing heavy overclocking. And even then, a high-performance air cooler, such as the Cooler Master 212 Evo (which runs for $30-$40), will do just fine.

HDD2:128GB ADATA SP900 SATA-III 6.0Gb/s - 550 MB/s Read & 520 MB/s Write:
This is just a personal preference, but I'd take Samsung, Intel, or OCZ's latest drives. Samsung in particular has a really good reputation.

16GB (8GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory [+89]:
Unless you absolutely need it, drop this to 8GB. The reason is that most games are 32-bit and in Windows, 32-bit programs are only allowed 2GB of memory unless there's an exception to use all 4GB (that as far as I know, only one game, Skyrim, has this exception). So basically, you'll never really fill out 8GB if you mostly game.

850 Watts - Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply:
Drop this to 550W-650W, either from Corsair or Seasonic. If you were looking at the video card box's requirement, this is actually a worst case scenario (either assuming a person is using a lower quality power supply or it's taxed to hell) to cover their rears.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0 x16 Video Card:
I'd opt for the GTX 770, as this gives you the best performance for the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:29 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:05 pm
Posts: 10
LatiosXT wrote:
Howdy, and welcome to the forums! Let's start with the questions you had...
...opt for the GTX 770, as this gives you the best performance for the money.


Every one of my question about my first build just answered.
Thanks LXT!

I was really really curious if current mobos will accept future processors...lets just hope that by the time i5-4670 is out dated it'll just be worth it for me to build a new computer. Like you said, only a 10% gain from Ivy-Haswell.
How long realistically will a "770, 8gb, i5-4670" setup last?

my plans are:
i5-4670
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120mm PWM Fan (RR-212E-20PK-R2)
1x8gb Corsair Veng....only question is if 2x4 is better than 1x8
EVGA GTX 770 2GB
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Corsair Builder Series CX 600 Watt ATX/EPS 80 PLUS (CX600)
CM Storm Scout 2 Advanced - Gaming Mid Tower Computer Case with Carrying Handles, Black
Samsung Electronics 840 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Single Unit Version Internal Solid State Drive MZ-7TE120BW....samsung rocks
Windows 7 Home Premium


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:34 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:05 pm
Posts: 10
Think i might get rid of the SSD for now and get the 770 Classified 4GB, i plan on modding skyrim and don't want any issues at all.

I can deal with some slow load times for a while.

If i happen to have the extra cash i'll go ahead and get the SSD but it's going to be tight already over my $1000 budget by 200


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm 
Coppermine
Coppermine
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:40 pm
Posts: 744
to CrookStomp:

Yes, welcome to the forums. LatiosXT gave you some great advice. My two cents would be get a bigger SSD - 128GB is sufficient but 256GB is the new sweetspot and generally only costs about $60 more. As to your question #3 (about OCing, or having the manufacturer do it), if you want to OC to "learn" how to do it, then by all means do it yourself. If you want to OC and don't care how it's done, then I recommend you let the manufacturer do it. That way, it's under their warranty. If you do it and screw it up, it's probably going to be on you.

To 650baquet:

Two things: First, you list an Intel CPU and an AMD motherboard. That won't work. The motherboard has to be a socket 1150 for it to fit a Haswell processor.

Second, to your question on "how long realistically will a "770, 8gb, i5-4670" setup last?" that's really a difficult question to answer because some of it depends on where and how technology advances. For example, let's say in 2 years software developers begin utilizing all cores, including hyperthreading...then that's going to impact the probable life span of your CPU. The other part that makes answering this question difficult is dependent on your preference and demands. If you always want ultra settings, max AA, and you won't settle for less, then your computer is going to become outdated much faster than if you're willing to accept mid or high settings with no AA.

Personally, when I build a computer I fully expect that in 2 years I will be replacing the GPU - that's where a gamer is going to see the biggest impact to gaming performance. The 770 is a really good card and if you're willing to use it for 2-3 years and then replace it with a modern card in the same price range, then I don't see why your computer couldn't last 5-7 years.

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:14 am 
Team Member
Team Member

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:09 pm
Posts: 630
Hey Latios, I looked into the flight sim games OP plays. DCS might be a cpu intensive game according to one forum post [1]. Another forum poster mentions that overclocking the CPU will help up to a point, which is when the GPU gets bogged down and becomes the bottleneck [2]. For non-Sim gamers, it is also mentioned that most use of processing power is at the airport, which makes sense since there's not much to render in the sky unless you head into storms. Finally, an old (2007) blog post on X-plane simulator explains that the number of objects depends on the CPU speed [3]. But things may have changed in 7 years so I'm not sure about that post.

So for flight sims, you basically need both a good CPU and GPU. Also, OP didn't tell us the monitor setup, and that may also affect the FPS.


[1] http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118500
[2] http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/communit ... pic=2461.0
[3] http://developer.x-plane.com/2007/04/cpu-or-gpu/


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:00 am 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5550
I found http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=107551 for DCS World, which the poster mentions that depending on the settings, it will impact performance. But basically the gist of it is that there are some settings that if you crank it out to the maximum, it'll noticeably impact performance but it won't offer much in return. I guess this is kind of like if you play around with AA settings, sure MSAA 16x looks nice, but so does FXAA/MLAA and it taxes the GPU a lot less.

X-Plane... well that's another league in and of itself. Well the real question here is: does the simulator rely more on multiprocessing or single-threaded performance? But it really depends if OP cares about having 60FPS all the time or if going down to even 30FPS is fine. Too many people I feel care too much about having 60FPS for every damn game.

Oh yeah, and the monitor setup is important. It may be better to find a GPU with more VRAM if you're stacking three monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:41 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:05 pm
Posts: 10
btdog wrote:
First, you list an Intel CPU and an AMD motherboard. That won't work. The motherboard has to be a socket 1150 for it to fit a Haswell processor.

including hyperthreading...then that's going to impact the probable life span of your CPU.

Personally, when I build a computer I fully expect that in 2 years I will be replacing the GPU - that's where a gamer is going to see the biggest impact to gaming performance. The 770 is a really good card and if you're willing to use it for 2-3 years and then replace it with a modern card in the same price range, then I don't see why your computer couldn't last 5-7 years.

Hope this helps.


Obviously I'm a noob, still can't believe I didn't just notice AMD for the motherboard. I'll scout out another one...I just want a reliable one with ability to expand in the future.

If mantle is going to work out, or better usage of multi cores happens SOON, would it be worth getting an AMD processor with more than 4 cores or should I just stick with the Intel?

2-3years is fine for replacement time I guess, if that's the case should I get the 770 4GB "classified"?...I know i'm a noob but I'm a huge hobbiest and learn fast, possibly might look into overclocking and run the tower in my back porch where it's cold(30-50F)
The 770 2GB will cost less but $100 won't make it or break it for me...

Thanks again man!


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 Post subject: Re: Having a New Rig Built
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:55 pm 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5550
I wouldn't put too much investment in thinking that Mantle will be widespread. So far only a handful of games have been announced to use it and most of them are from (ugh) EA. And I have no reason to believe multi-core processors will be necessary in the near term for games (I wrote a post about this).

More VRAM in a video card will get you higher textures and resolutions. But I think you can still skirt by with 2GB as I haven't played any recently released title that could use it (I'd say CoD: Ghosts, but I'm dubious of its programming to begin with).


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