Maximum PC

It's still two generations down the road and the original source material is saying Intel wants Haswell to compete with ARM in the tablet market as well as provide better AIO solutions.

I seriously doubt though that Intel will follow through with this idea. They're going to make a lot of people unhappy.

I personally think Intel would be walking a tightrope... who do we piss off? Our customers? Or our stockholders?

GPUs are different. NVIDIA and AMD both provide a reference design that other manufacturers use as a blueprint. In this case, the motherboard manufacturers are now responsible for more than just the motherboard. Not to mention if Intel comes out with 20 different flavors of an architecture, the board manufacturer will have to supply multiple versions of their motherboard SKUs for each version of processor. And if they have to replace a defective board, which could be caused by anything, then the both parts have to be replaced.

And if you're mentioning GPUs, you may as well tell me they should solder the RAM onto the board.

But yes, it would make sense to do this because nobody really upgrades their CPU. But Intel has to convince the world around them to change in order to do this right.

Except the memory controller, integrated graphics, disk controllers, and most of the USB hubs were provided by Intel. Intel does not make network chips, sound chips, or other low-bandwidth interfaces that hook into the PCH. And even in today's SoCs, someone else does sound and networking, and in ARM's case, the graphics. There's facilities in the chip itself for connections, but someone else does the handling. So the only competitive edge Intel has over ARM if they get down on their level of performance/watt is they have a GPU, but that's probably not saying much considering they're competing with PowerVR and NVIDIA, and it wasn't until just recently Intel made something considered viable.


No need for a chipset? There are still quite a few low bandwidth parts on motherboards in demand that need to be connected somehow, someone needs to handle them. The chipset isn't going away, it's just changing definitions. Besides, what's stopping motherboard makers from going beyond what Intel gives them? Z68 has no native USB3.0 support, so they tacked it on. Only 2 SATA 6Gbps ports, so they added more via 3rd party chips.


This doesn't buy them anything. If you are going to sell a part capable of better features and lock them, you're going to have to test it with those features unlocked to make sure they can handle it. Otherwise they'll be selling time bombs.

Also the whole thing with Windows 8 and Metro, sure, radical change. But in this case, it doesn't affect anyone but the end users. Integrating the CPU with the motherboard affects more than just the end users. Metro may affect developers, but they don't have to use Metro. Otherwise if Microsoft really wanted to force Metro down our throats, Metro would be the only thing available.

The one intent I can infer from this is that Intel doesn't want a DIY market anymore.

A BGA CPU solution makes sense for custom, built to order boards like OEMs do, and such boards make sense further in laptop or AIO formfactors where thickness is a factor. And this isn't really revolutionizing the desktop experience. Let's take HP's convertible laptops or even the Windows 8 convertibles. Sure they're not 20", but they effectively provide the same experience: turn it into a laptop when you're doing stationary work, flip it over into a tablet or pull it out of the docking statino when you want that form factor.

That's the same feeling I get LatiosXT, but from the article alone. Intel would be cutting a still large majority out (us) if they only sell for OEM's and do this BGA/soldered on your board approach. It's suicide unless they really feel there's only tablets left to sell too.

Boutiques would die off, builders would die off; they'd just really pigeon-hole themselves into niche markets and really stoop down to Qualcomm IMO...not compete, stoop. There's many angles to this article that could be taken, but I really think they're making hype and more than likely mis-reading Intel's actual intent.

Could you not also say Haswell will be BGA only and not be talking about Intel CPU's in general? Could Haswell really be aimed directly at the tablet/smart phone and just leave it at that? That this article continues on all on their own and [speculates] it's the future in general for Intel CPU's is a bit naive IMO. Is it assuming that the Tick and the Tock must be in the same format? Broadwell may still very well be in a socket while Haswell was BGA only and tablet (or whatever) bound. Skylake could be for tablets and Skymont for us in that same point.

If I were them, I'd be seeing the current i3/i5/i7 splits and the sockets and chips that go with it, which add confusion, and just want to solidify the products and what they're intended for. Maybe we're just lucky and are finally going to get our wishes in getting the number schemes under control so we don't need geeks in forums to sort them all out for us as consumers. Just look at Newegg today and dive through the i3's and i5's you'd purchase...it's a mess. i7's too in the sockets, cores, speed.

Yeah, I'm thinking the article is just pulling the trigger on very basic assumptions. Anton Shilov (Resume, please) is in fact basing the article on other sites, and other sites, and really nothing hard. You know the old game right? Make a circle of 6, whisper in one ear and see what you get back. IMO, it's suicide the way it's written. Customers (OEM and us, boutiques included) would not have options and stock holders would lose money. So, Asus would have to make only 3 boards? Silly.

Believe me, I'm no business major, but aren't enthusiasts already a niche market? Aren't the vast majority of Wintel computers prebuilt? Add to this the steady migration from desktop units to laptops and tablets, and I get the distinct impression that enthusiasts such as we who like to roll our own and choose our own mobo/CPU/RAM combo are not exactly on Intel's radar. We're just a blip. If that.

We are Oven, we are. But what I'm pointing to is everyone else making a business of being a good builder too. Look at all the ads and reviews in MPC alone. If it's not Dell or HP putting out their stamped out shit, it's who? It's us single users elevated and making a business with them too. One couldn't even fathom to build a PC if this comes out, let alone put one up to review unless you're an OEM already.

What if I wanted to start OvenMaster PC, Inc based upon this BGA only? I need a whole lot of info just handed to me from Intel directly, or Dell/HP would just run amuck as OEM's. I couldn't compete and they'd be cutting people out of competition. It's just not feasible to say "you need me, so just do it...and figure my pins out." It's never worked.

I'm calling this BS now. All the tech guys are picking this apart just as I did. Haswell got re-directed in Intel and didn't fit "reviewers mindsets or plans". EVERY tech guy worth their salt is just saying it's just for that chip, not the entire company's future. This guy is trying out for the INQ, not someone to get actual tech news from.

World's going to end anyway on Dec21st, right fear mongers? Not trashing you guys and more the shit you're reading and not weighing logically, but come on. It's MPC, not Reddit.

The socket will live on. There's no plausible angle against it. Just don't hope for Haswell in your 2013 super build. Why? Because you have enough and you'll wait for the next one.