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 Post subject: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:25 pm
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Hi, am new here but already am very impressed with the community :D Please help me choose the best hardware to build a super-ish computer for my graphics design course using mainly 3ds MAX.

This is what my wish list looks like from my research:

1. Intel i7-2600k CPU for hyperthreading
2. Nvidia GTX580 GPU for CUDA
3. ASRock P67 or Z68 mobo
4. SATA III HDD for storage
5. SSD for 64-bit Windows 7 OS
6. 8gb RAM
7. 500 watt PSU
8. Peripherals....

Kindly recommended your list of hardware for under £900?

Thanks :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Welcome to the forum!

First of all, there is no way you can get your expected list for under 900 quid. The GTX 580 would take half your budget and the i7 1/4th.

My first question is, what exactly will you be doing with 3ds Max? The program is like photoshop, your workflow and usage will dictate your system requirements. CGI quality or designing game models/art? Any 3rd party plugins with 3ds max? I'm assuming you are in the UK so you can source from the UK (if so, you have a lot of good vendors to choose from)? Do you need monitor, keyboard, mouse, OS? Are you recycling any part from older computers or is this a completely new build?

How soon are you needing this? I ask because you are 4 weeks away from the next generation of Intel cpu's to replace the older Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge. The i7 3770k will out perform the i7 2600k by about 5-15% at stock speeds and roughly around the same performance (in most benchmarks, not all that are heavily multi-threaded) as the $600 i7 3930k Sandy Bridge-E chip. You can read more about the cpu here and their new counterpart motherboards here.

Not only that but Nvidia's next gen kepler cards, the 600 series, is slated to be out in 4 weeks as well! The GTX 660, 670 and 680 with a starting MSRP of about $400. We haven't seen how well they will do in the real world yet, but the specs look promising and I wouldn't advise buying a gtx 580 right now. Not only that, but your graphics selection is also dependent on what you want to do since CGI level graphics really do require the expensive Pro level cards from either AMD firePro or nvidia Quadro level cards for their better handling on double precision floating point calculations. Or in another words, they are much much more accurate/precise for the level of math that your computer would be doing.



Here's my list if you don't need a pro level gpu:

I'd also recommend adding the cheap and affordable Cooler Master 212 EVO for $28.75 @ Amazon UK so you can get a bit of overclocking ability on your cpu. Do note, this list does not include an OS, but if you are a student, check to see if you can get win7 pro for free from your school or get the upgrade from the school (buy at the book store or you can buy directly from MS with edu discount). You can also attempt to snag a free copy of win 08 r2 server since you can somehow get that as a student (someone link this plz!!!).

As for choices, I doubled down on the RAM to 16gb because well you will be using it for content creation software like 3ds MAX. I could only budget in a cheap 64GB corsair m4 SSD, but I paired it along with a large 2tb green drive for storage. Its not fast, but a good 2nd drive. The SSD won't handle no more than the OS and 3ds MAX so you'll have to keep the rest of your files on the HDD.

I went with the biggest consumer level gpu you could afford that has CUDA, which is the GTX 560 ti 448 right now. Its essentially a gtx 570 lite that really isn't light at all; very powerful. But again, new nvidia cards are 4 months away with more budget cards soon to follow. The good thing about EVGA is that they do have a step up program so that you can send in your 560 ti 448 for a newer, higher end card within 90 days of purchase. You just have to upgrade your warranty from KR limited to AR lifetime (something like 20-30 quid??? May need to look into this) and then pay the difference of your card and the card you want.

Next I went with the cheapest case that's semi decent, a decent mid range power supply that will handle the gpu and cpu; even with a little bit of overclocking and a cheap dvd burner.


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:58 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 5
10x Jbaz, that was insightful and very helpful because now I realize my wallet and those of others will suffer alot :roll:

First off, I am indulging in all areas of 3ds and I need cgi quality for my 3D/art/modelling/games development. So yeah, I require a Pro-level gpu since I also need to accommodate plugins. Please suggest a build and lets smash the limit off my original budget (I'll just have to beg, borrow, or beg mum) 8)

Secondly, yes am in UK and going for a completely new build...except the monitor which am happy with. If you can factor in some good input peripherals that would be just awesome too. I dont need the OS because I believe I can use my 32-bit license for a 64-bit copy of Win 7 legally? Also, will get back to you on that win 8 rc2...

Lastly, I need this beast like yesterday because the itsy render is turning my current 7yr old pc into poop :lol: therefore, although I am aware of the impending arrival of Kepler goodness, my studies just cant wait...But I will definitely take up the EVGA step up option, thanks.

Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting your recommended list that includes a Pro level GPU.

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:14 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 5
hi JBaz, first lemmi say thanks for the warm welcome AGAIN since I lost my detailed reply post to you yesterday: it just disappeared when i clicked submit :( newbie!

The summary of it was this:

I need a pro-level gpu since am modelling and need quality cgi. I will also be diving into plugins very soon. I need to have this beast asap because unfortunately my course cant wait since the itsy render is turning my current setup to poop, but i will definitely take up that EVGA upgrade suggestion, thanks (am in UK). I will also need all new peripherals, apart from the monitor which am happy with. I dont need the O/S, i already have win 7 pro 32bit and i believe i can use the same key for a 64bit install, legally :-) BTW, which link did you request about win 08 r2, this here? https://www.dreamspark.com/Product/Prod ... roductid=8

Now I just need a Pro build recommendation, can you do that for me please? Just disregard my current budget limit...

I will beg, borrow and...beg mum! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:19 am 
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Yikes... Have you thought about just doing game level modeling instead of CGI? Heh

Anyhow, still need a revived budget because CGI photo like quality renders can get quite pricey. And when I mean pricey, I mean $4k+ for a graphics card... 2P setups with two $2k xeon processors and a shit ton of high speed low cas DDR3 ram that can choke a donkey (and a cool $500-1k+). I've only built a few systems like that for a few architectural friends and their starting budget for systems were 4k; but that's using mid-range parts!

Now the more exciting thing right now in CGI world is the shift to openCL, or the open source coding language for general purpose GPU calculations; similar to openGL and CUDA API's that some games and rendering software uses right now. 3Ds max does not support openCL right now and the only way to get GPU hardware acceleration is using a qualified gpu (which means pro level card), but there are a number of rendering plugins that do, which are just awesome, because this means you can actually use consumer level gpu's (some do work with SLI/xfire setups) for GPU acceleration when you are doing your finalized post processing renders.

But again, it depends on your workflow and what plugin's you use.


As for win7 32bit to 64bit, I'm going to say that's probably a no. You will most likely have to buy or upgrade to 64bit, but I'm not exactly certain of this. Either way, you want at least a windows 7 pro and you should be able to snag them at your school with your edu discount for half the cost. And if you can get win 08 rc2 for free, that will work just fine, but do note that its a server level os and maybe a bit funky to work with (its still very similar to 7, just better security and features towards a server environment).


If cost is no barrier (within reason), then you should look at the i7 lga 2011 socket cpu's as you'll really benefit from a bigger chip like the hexacore 3930k with their quad channel ram. Do note that, just the cpu and mobo alone will be the same cost as the entire system above... Budget be damned, its one of the fastest 1P workstation solutions on the market right now that doesn't cost 1-2k for the cpu alone.

But I will say this, for your needs, you don't want to cheap out on a system, but you don't exactly have to go out and spend 4k-20k+ to get decently fast results. Keep in mind that it still depends on our workflow, rendering needs and output quality (resolution and image quality).


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:34 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 5
lol i double posted because it took mods around 2 days to approve my first reply Image

:shock: sorry i may have misled you abit there coz i certainly cant go over 2k, not until i finish and get a really good project... from your advice I have decided to concentrate on modelling game levels (am currently doing this) and maybe pursue cgi later - when I'll obviously have to sign my life off for a huge loan!

So in the meantime can I beef up the above setup with a better gpu and double the ssd capacity with a revived budget of £2000 max? Wont that be hugely beneficial for the renders? I use Mentalray/Iray alot so I really want a better gpu... As for 3rd party plugins, although am more interested in the top plugins like Multi Scatter, Rayfire, Real Flow, and of course AR media, I will just be experimenting with all the cheaper ones that will be available to me. I confirmed I will get win 7 pro 64 bit from uni for free, thanks.

In conclusion, I wish I could wait 4weeks, but i cant, so if there is no need to beef up this monster a little bit more, I will go with your recommended setup and upgrade the gpu later... what say you JBaz?


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:05 pm 
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If you are going to be using those tools, I'd still recommend a pro level card since you won't get any hardware acceleration during your workflow with a consumer level card. Its not a limitation of the consumer cards, but rather drivers and 3ds don't code for them. They like to keep their hardware pool a little smaller than normal.

If you got 2k to work with, well then, that jumps you up to a whole level of new hardware parts to play with. Here's what I had in mind:


As you can tell, I didn't include the price of a video card. Here's two choices I'd throw at you and you pick.

I'd say afford the best card you can if you think you plan on working with very complicated scenes. Honestly, I think the best price/performance for you is going to be the V5900 card. Nvidia Quadro cards are very good contenders, but I honestly can't find vendors out there that sells them for a reasonable price; I'm just not too familiar with all of the vendors that sells business level parts in UK/Europe. Here in the states, the Quadro 2000D and 4000 would be direct competitors to the v5900 and v7900 with a very similar price point.

I guess just shop around and see who sells them; also check with your school if they have approved vendor lists since sometimes you can buy professional gear/equipment through the school through a vendor that's partnered with your school for educational discount. I know they did this with my art school, but it wasn't something crazy cheap still; maybe like 5% off, but that's still quite a bit of savings when you are talking about 400-700+ USD cards.

I'm sure if you are doing game design work/modeling you'd probably be happy with the v5900 or the quadro 2000D, I have a few friends who have that level of card (they actually use the older FX that's about the same performance) and its plenty powerful for their needs.


As for the rest of the system, I bumped you up to the more expensive hexa-core unlocked i7 3930k on the lga 2011 socket. This bloats your cost a bit, but for multi-threaded applications like content creation, those two extra cores (4 threads in total) really do help out and no matter how good the i7 2600k or the next gen ivy bridge i7 3770k, they won't match the performance for what you will be doing.

Paired with the cpu is the Corsair H100 cpu cooler. I could have went with a cheaper H80 or even with an aircooler, but this allows a lot of cooling abilities to really overclock your cpu and keep it cool. Honestly, you might be better off with getting a proper liquid cooled kit like the XSPC RS750 2x120mm cpu cooling kit. Everything comes included and roughly the same price as the H100. Not exactly sure where you buy water cooling parts in Europe, but FrozenCPU has it and I'm fairly confident they'd ship overseas... Not sure.

I picked the fairly nice Asus mobo with some great features and compared to other lga 2011 boards, it's actually the cheapest that sports 8 ram slots. You can go cheaper with 4 ram slots like the lga 1155 boards, but honestly having that much ram in your system is going to help for work. Speaking of RAM, I doubled up and went with 8x4gb modules for a total of 32GB. You could go with 8gb modules for double the cost, but I'd probably say 32GB would be more than sufficient for your needs.

Like you said, I doubled up the SSD, upgrade the green drive to a proper 7200rpm, but kept the same power supply. Even with a more powerful processor, its actually not too bad at power consumption and the pro level videocards don't exactly eat through power like consumer gaming cards do (some higher level pro card do though). 600w should be sufficient, but maybe look at getting a more efficient unit like on silver or gold 80+ standard.

Now the only thing I have to say that I'd probably really recommend to upgrade is the case. I cheap'ed out and stayed with a similar NZXT compact/mid sized tower case that will work, but if your budget allows for it, I'd upgrade to a bigger and better unit that can handle your cooling needs. You can look at Corsair 400r, 600t, Cooler Master 922, 932, 690 II advance or the storm series as well as NZXT's higher end Phantom cases; Silverstone, Antec and Lian Li also make great cases that would work. But like I said, if you won't want to add too much cost, the Source 220 will work; you can mount the radiator on top and be rocking just as hard with your 3ds.


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 Post subject: Re: Help design student choose hardware for 3ds MAX - £900
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:04 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 5
Thank you Jbaz!!! I went with the first build and its sooo zippy my project is 8) Your info was and still is priceless :D :D :D :D

Now for the upgrade...


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