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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Just read this over at EVGA.
Quote:
Big Advanced (BA) is an experimental type of Folding@home WUs intended for the most powerful machines in FAH. However, as time goes on, technology advances, and the characteristics associated with the most powerful machines changes. Due to these advances in hardware capabilities, we will need to periodically change the BA minimum requirements. Thus, we are shortening the deadlines of the BA projects. As a result, assignments will have a 16 core minimum. To give donors some advance warning, we are announcing this now, but the change will take place in 2 months: no earlier than on Monday January 16, 2012.

We understand that any changes to how FAH works is a disruption for donors, and we have been trying to minimize such changes. For that reason, we are not changing the points system at this time. However, we want to emphasize that the BA program is experimental and that donors should expect changes in the future, potentially without a lot of notice (although we will try our best to give as much notice as we can). In particular, as hardware evolves, it is expected that we will need to change the nature of the BA WUs again in the future

EVGA Link
Folding @ Home Link

Kinda glad I have not already bought a new 6 core 12HT cpu. With no bigadv support that chops a huge amount of points. So many people are now going to be left out of the high points game...
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chikinz
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:53 pm 
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magnumsrule wrote:
Just read this over at EVGA.
Quote:
Big Advanced (BA) is an experimental type of Folding@home WUs intended for the most powerful machines in FAH. However, as time goes on, technology advances, and the characteristics associated with the most powerful machines changes. Due to these advances in hardware capabilities, we will need to periodically change the BA minimum requirements. Thus, we are shortening the deadlines of the BA projects. As a result, assignments will have a 16 core minimum. To give donors some advance warning, we are announcing this now, but the change will take place in 2 months: no earlier than on Monday January 16, 2012.

We understand that any changes to how FAH works is a disruption for donors, and we have been trying to minimize such changes. For that reason, we are not changing the points system at this time. However, we want to emphasize that the BA program is experimental and that donors should expect changes in the future, potentially without a lot of notice (although we will try our best to give as much notice as we can). In particular, as hardware evolves, it is expected that we will need to change the nature of the BA WUs again in the future

EVGA Link
Folding @ Home Link

Kinda glad I have not already bought a new 6 core 12HT cpu. With no bigadv support that chops a huge amount of points. So many people are now going to be left out of the high points game...


I've got a bad feeling about this....
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:16 pm 
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So unless you have an SR-2 or some kind of server board your out of luck for bigadv when the change takes place. Hopefully they will increase the point value of regular SMP units to make up for the absence of the higher pointers. LOL going to have to go quad G34 pretty soon!
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mag
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:07 am 
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magnumsrule wrote:
LOL going to have to go quad G34 pretty soon!

Good luck finding a case for that doesn't cost more than the board.
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:47 am 
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Set it right on the box it came in. :P

Another cheap option would be to buy just the mobo panel from MM and make a cheap tech station.
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hackman2007
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:25 am 
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This was bound to happen. I'm guessing they want to keep the production lower so they don't discourage smaller folders.
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Tiak
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:58 am 
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My guess is that it is an effort to bring down times on bigadv units. So, rather than letting a wider range of machines do bigadv at slower times, they would rather have fewer machines returning work faster.

Just a guess.
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:56 pm 
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If that was the case then I think they should allow users to more accurately define what kind of units they would like. IE the top priority and high stress will only work on the 16 core machines. Then have a section of units for 8-16 and another for less than 8. Something like that.
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Tiak
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:35 pm 
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Yeah, but that adds a little extra complexity.

If you look at it now they have 3 categories.
Single Core
SMP
Bigadv
(excluding GPU, since we are just talking CPU work units for now)

If they changed it, they would then have:
Single Core
SMP
Bigadv < 8
Bigadv > 8 < 16
Bigadv > 16

It would add at least a little extra coding and complexity, plus they would probably have to assign different points to the 3 bigadv categories, and more benchmarking and so on.

I've only been folding a year and a half or so, but I look at it this way. When SMP first came out they took longer to crunch through. As processors evolved, the times on SMP went down as well. Now it's getting to the point where Bigadv folding times are starting to get lower, thanks to the hardware. So, they have to divide the hardware line somewhere. So, the single cores, the smp up to 16, then the bigadv.

Maybe it's just the programmer in me going "don't complicate it if you don't need to! Aghhhh!"
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:27 pm 
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You had the right idea just a little more.
How about scrap uni core.
then basic smp is low end.
then 8-16 core advanced or small bigadv whichever
then 16+ for important or really taxing units.
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hackman2007
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:43 pm 
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magnumsrule wrote:
You had the right idea just a little more.
How about scrap uni core.
then basic smp is low end.
then 8-16 core advanced or small bigadv whichever
then 16+ for important or really taxing units.


I'm sure there are still some people that run the single client.
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Yes but how much work is still getting done by machines that are 6+ years old. I know that all work is important but cant they just package uni core packets into a bigger smp unit?
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RacerAC
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:16 pm 
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hackman2007 wrote:
magnumsrule wrote:
You had the right idea just a little more.
How about scrap uni core.
then basic smp is low end.
then 8-16 core advanced or small bigadv whichever
then 16+ for important or really taxing units.


I'm sure there are still some people that run the single client.

I was until yesterday when my Atom powered MSI netbook crapped out. I have not had much time lately to do troubleshooting but I think it might be the hard drive.
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:59 pm 
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I see on EVGA they are planning to stop folding for a week to protest the changes. Not sure how much of an impact that will have.
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Full_Taoer
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:41 pm 
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magnumsrule wrote:
I see on EVGA they are planning to stop folding for a week to protest the changes. Not sure how much of an impact that will have.

It will send up cheers from the [H]orde. :lol:
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Tedster
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Full_Taoer wrote:
magnumsrule wrote:
I see on EVGA they are planning to stop folding for a week to protest the changes. Not sure how much of an impact that will have.

It will send up cheers from the [H]orde. lol:


:lol: :lol: :roll: :twisted: :roll: :lol: :lol: :idea: :lol: :lol:


:mrgreen:





Ted
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Eno75
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Ummm... didn't I just read that they were dropping the bonus on bigadvs to bring them more inline? So now they're going to not only drop the bonus but also make them achievable by only some of the most ridiculously overbuilt hardware for any other purpose the planet knows?

I'm not sure I understand the concept. Maybe I'm naive... It's not like the points are coming out of anyone's pockets. Give us our bonuses... Give the guys with 16+ cores more bonus points... Everyone is happy.

Evga can stop for a whole month- in the end we're only hurting ourselves and we're that much further behind. They've built up all this hype around points- which really is simply a way of getting people excited about the value of their contribution... THAT COSTS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (except for evga maybe) and now they turn it into something that is actually quite negative.

I'll keep folding my big rigs... and they'll whittle away at whatever is thrown at them. But it does leave me with a really ugly feeling. Feeling a bit ripped off actually. Maybe I'm just being selfish.
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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:46 pm 
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The bonus point system is still in place, though the deadlines even on the 16+ core rig bigadv units will be something like 2 days so unless they change base bonus values they will not be worth near as much. Another way to solve the problem would be to simply increase the value of smp units and make that an incentive to fold them.
Many members at EVGA are quitting folding and are looking into alternatives such as World Community Grid and other DC projects. Most have the argument that they spent many $$$$ of dollars on bigadv equipment that is now nerfed. I can def see the point, and in a way many of the other DC projects are just as worthy of support.
Im just glad the news came out before I invested in a 6/12 core 980/970 or even one of the new 2011 procs. Ill continue to fold away on my gpus when I feel I can afford the power. :wink:
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Fergity
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:36 am 
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I'm sure there will no be 2 days preferred WUs. And I can explain why. My i7-970@4.1GHz finishes p6904 in 3.5 days. In fact my rig is similar to 16 core amd server solution. Look, interlagos is less effective than sandy bridge or gulftown in terms of MHz-core performance. 16-cores processor with 2GHz is about 6+HT 4+GHz' gulftown. Just remember that more threads mean more loss of performance (16x@2GHz < 8x4GHz).
Now take this statement: every 16 core system MUST finish BA in preferred deadline. Than either not every 16-core system will be able to proceed with BA or BAs will stay the same.
According to things i've said I gonna tell that my i7-970 will be able to deal with new BAs. And I know how to make client sure that i have any optional number of cores. I'll be BA-folder anyway :twisted:

P.s. sorry for my english, i am drunk a bit :mrgreen:


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magnumsrule
 Post subject: Re: Bad bigadv news
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:34 am 
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lol :)

I have read in a few places that people can expect the new deadlines to be 2 days. So maybe its not written in stone just yet since I cant actually find a hard source for this.
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