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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:00 pm 
Java Junkie
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Dwood15 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
How are namespaces pointless (hint, they aren't!)? Have you ever worked with something that has 10+ projects? Or 300k+ lines?


You're using the wrong programming language for a 300k+ line project...


You're disagreeing with a very large percentage of the software industry ...


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:03 pm 
Northwood
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Jipstyle wrote:
Dwood15 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
How are namespaces pointless (hint, they aren't!)? Have you ever worked with something that has 10+ projects? Or 300k+ lines?


You're using the wrong programming language for a 300k+ line project...


You're disagreeing with a very large percentage of the software industry ...


Doesn't mean they're right. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:37 pm 
Java Junkie
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It does, actually. Thousands of years of combined experience in software eng and project management agree that C# is ready for enterprise development.

It is one of the principal languages used by my last three employers .. who combine for billions in annual revenue. I think they know what they're doing.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:37 pm 
SON OF A GUN
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Dwood15 wrote:
Doesn't mean they're right. :P
I understand this is your opinion but what experience can you possibly have that would make this a valid opinion? I mean, in the real world? I mean this in the best way possible but are you still in college? Until you have a few years of real experience working on a few different projects of significance I don't think you are qualified to make such statements. Do you have an experience with modern design practices?

You still haven't addressed my question about why you think namespaces are pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:18 pm 
SON OF A GUN
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Go buy .NET Domain-Driven Design with C# by Tim McCarthy (wrox). I am two chapters in and already this is proving to be an amazing example of how important namespaces are for organizing your solutions and designing maintainable code!

Having only recently had DDD formally suggested to me (although OOP naturally lends itself to this patter it isn't automatic) I highly recommend this for anybody serious about enterprise level applications even if you aren't .NET specific.

He mentions three other books the I will post about tomorrow. I only have a little bit of time left before I need to call it a night and I want to finish this section.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:06 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Dwood15 wrote:
Doesn't mean they're right. :P


No, you're just not right period.

It doesn't matter what language you're using, it's all about linear complexity. As the number of requirements increase, your code base will increase. Do you think Windows can be written in just a few thousand lines of code in LISP? I doubt it, in fact, your claim has zero basis in reality.

Requirements drive the choice of the language, not the size of the code. For some projects, we've used three languages to achieve what we needed, presently, I'm only using one because my requirements aren't huge. Needless to say, I design my solutions around maintainability, so I use namespaces frequently.

As per Cash's posts: if you think namespaces are pointless, then you write simple console apps that don't do much. Have you ever written a complex calculation engine? I have, namespaces helped me create better design. I knew that the calculation engine was in a namespace called App.Something.Engine and that my command builder was in App.Something.Builder. So please, elaborate us, I'd like to know as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:49 pm 
Northwood
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I mean, namespaces when there are classes, and you're using safe C#. C# gains a lot more power when you turn off safety features.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:14 pm 
SON OF A GUN
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Dwood15 wrote:
I mean, namespaces when there are classes, and you're using safe C#. C# gains a lot more power when you turn off safety features.
You don't make any sense lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 am 
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Dwood15 wrote:
I mean, namespaces when there are classes, and you're using safe C#.


... as opposed to namespaces without classes?

Quote:
C# gains a lot more power when you turn off safety features.


This is only true for poor programmers or programmers constrained by poor design decisions made by inept management. In fairness, the second case should still not be an issue for a competent programmer.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:54 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Dwood15 wrote:
I mean, namespaces when there are classes, and you're using safe C#. C# gains a lot more power when you turn off safety features.


Safety features? Namespaces? How are those two related?

That's like saying a car gets more horse power when you switch wiper blades.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:58 am 
Java Junkie
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Carbon fibre wiper blades FTW!


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:30 am 
SON OF A GUN
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Jipstyle wrote:
Carbon fibre wiper blades FTW!
They weigh less!

Btw, I am all for discussing DWoods opinion, but he hasn't really said anything or tried to defend it. I like discussion and debates but so far that hasn't been anything to debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:21 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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CrashTECH wrote:
Btw, I am all for discussing DWoods opinion, but he hasn't really said anything or tried to defend it. I like discussion and debates but so far that hasn't been anything to debate.


Me too, but it's not like they make sense, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into programming.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:32 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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urmumsacow wrote:
@DJSpin

Way back when I was learning some C++ and learning it's awesome powers. I was never a real programmer to begin with but I liked to think I picked up a lot of core principles and got a good idea of what was possible with it. During this time I heard about C# being an up and coming thing, but while I don't remember specifics, I do remember hearing how it would drop some important functionality that C++ had. I realize I'm being vauge but isnt that true? In C++ you can create kernels, write sections of ASM code etc, the sky is the limit. C# dropped at least some of the powerful-and-scary-hard stuff... right?


Even though this post is fourteen days past (sorry, I missed the notification about this post).

It's actually untrue. You can write a kernel in C#, take a look at Microsoft's singularity. It's an entire kernel built out of unmanaged and managed code. It's actually really cool with what they did.

urmumsacow wrote:
Obviously the majority of programmers don't NEED to be doing any of that, but in my young mind I liked that C++ was as powerful as just about anything else. Most programmers are control freaks, you honestly prefer C# with its loss of control?


Control has nothing to do with it. A language is designed to solve a particular problem domain: while C++ has speed, you wouldn't catch me writing web apps in C++. It's about the right language for the right job. I simply chose C# because 1. it seemed cool at the time and 2. I needed a job. C# doesn't remove control out of my hands, but it does empower me to write software pretty quickly. Going back to the C++ example, a C++ web app (probably through CGI) would require butt-loads of pointers to get the job done - in C#, it manages it for me. Surprisingly, there's hardly any slowness to C# either, it's a pretty fast language.

Sure, C# doesn't have a lot of the scary-hard-and-powerful stuff, but C++ is designed for a different type of problem domain. It's difficult to compare one over the other.


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