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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:01 pm 
Java Junkie
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JAB Creations wrote:
Being insulted by mods now, great business ethics.


How is offering you advice insulting you?

Then again, I suppose I could ask how pointing out the proven inadequacies of your hardware is also insulting.

As I pointed out in my first post, AMD chips are the appropriate choice in certain circumstances .. gaming is one of them. You may recall that I suggested that a gamer buy an AMD chip and put the savings into his GPU instead.

More advice for you: take a cement pill and toughen up. Life is hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:31 pm 
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No, you people are just a bunch of materialists with superiority complexes. My hardware is more than capable of what I need and want it to do. You people just can't think for yourselves and insult people like me who do.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:12 pm 
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JAB Creations wrote:
My hardware is more than capable of what I need and want it to do.


Of course it is. No one said otherwise.

It isn't the best but it is certainly good enough.

Quote:
You people just can't think for yourselves and insult people like me who do.


The only insult is that you can't come to terms with the fact that your hardware is not the best available. And, honestly, if you think that is insulting, you need to grow up.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:35 pm 
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No, as I stated before I dislike the fact that good hardware like mine is insulted when it's more then capable. You keep on implying things that aren't true which makes you come off as a troll.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:14 pm 
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Tedster wrote:
As for the performance, look at the benchmarks. an Intel i7 930 CPU beats anything that amd had, even the 1090t. there is a reason AMD parts are priced so low. that is where they perform.

Ted


Not True, not even close, basicly, anything that can utilize more than 4 physical cores will have the advantage on the 1090t thanks to the two extra real cores, while anything that can only use a maximum of 4 cores, will have the advantage on the i7-930. In fact the 1055t (stock) beats out the i7-940 (stock) in most benchmarks & programs that utilize 6 or more cores, and the 1090t (stock) even beats the i7-975 (stock) in more than a dozen synthetic benchmarks & some games. Unless you can afford a 6-core Intel CPU (i7-980 or one of the Xeon's), the 1090t is your best bet for Photoshop CS5 & Premiere Pro CS5, both of which can utilize more than 8 physical cores.

I'll leave you with this tidbit...
benchmark reviews wrote:
Benchmark Reviews begins our conclusion with a short summary for each of the areas that we rate. The first is performance, which considers how effective the AMD Phenom-II X6-1090T processor performance in operations against similar desktop CPU products. The first challenge is properly defining the competition, which by merit of price would be Intel's Core i7-920 processor, or could be the Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition CPU if you want to match the physical core count. If we base the competition by price (assuming AMD's assertion of a sub-$300 MSRP is legitimate), the Phenom-II X6-1090T is the hands-down winner on all fronts, as it beats the i7-920 in nearly all performance measures while also offering an unmatched price-performance ratio over the expensive i7-980X.

Aside from encryption scores, which shot Intel's i7-980X off the charts, AMD's X6-1090T delivered impressive results. The Music tests in PCMark Vantage certainly lend proof to at least one area of dominance, while the TV and Movies tests showed us that the X6-1090T could match performance with the 980X... and cost nearly $840 less. Gaming performance was moot, since most critics would agree that 1 FPS of difference is barely enough measure, and not enough to notice. In terms of real-world professional design application performance, nearly all 4-thread SPECviewperf benchmarks agreed that AMD made the best processor for their tasks.


Basicly, an AMD 6-core CPU is better for certian tasks, while a 4 or 6 core Intel CPU is better for other tasks, but there isn't a clear all-around winner... Yet because so many applications are still lacking support for more than 4 physical cores, Intel is better suited to a machine that does a wide variety of tasks.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:30 pm 
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JAB Creations wrote:
No, as I stated before I dislike the fact that good hardware like mine is insulted when it's more then capable. You keep on implying things that aren't true which makes you come off as a troll.


I'm not implying anything. I said, quite clearly, that your hardware is not the best available. It isn't.

I have also said that it is more than good enough .. in fact, I've said that more than once. Moreover, I've also said that it is the appropriate choice for certain people, depending on what they're running.

Why you keep ignoring this is beyond me, unless you enjoy martyring yourself .. in which case, you're in the right place.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:34 pm 
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There still is a clear Intel/nVidia/Creative Labs bias, though. Believe me, people see it. Years of "Well, this is good, but Intel's upcoming so-and-so will probably leave it in the dust" and "ATI's new card is great, but we eagerly await nVidia's next-gen tech, so that we can point to ATI and laugh" and "PLZ GIEF MORE CREATIVE LABS SOUND CARD NO OTHER CARD GUD ENUF ANY OTHER CARD MEANS PC CANCER!!!!!!!!!!!one", and people DO see it.

(Edited to add: Don't forget, when last year's Dream Machine turned out to be three pathetic "budget" creations, people like Jipstyle et al were drooling all over them, as the greatest creations of the modern PC era. So for them to now mock someone else, because they want more budget options... Well, I think we all know where I'm going here.)


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Thank you FunkySquirrel! I was afraid I was the only one on here who was against wrecklessly spending money just because I could get more FPS then I would actually see or benefit from!

Speaking of Creative Labs I recently took my X-Fi Platinum sound card out and started using onboard audio, why? Because there are 99% less interruptions to the 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound even though onboard audio uses CPU cycles, imagine that? Any one want to buy an X-Fi card for cheap? :mrgreen:

Even when there are people still sporting Pentium 4 computers at LAN parties instead of being a prick I encourage them to upgrade instead of acting all high and mighty just because my machine is superior to theirs.

I have no problem having the correct stand on such subjects because at the end of the day I actually understand what I'm talking about instead of throwing money at the problem which now that I think about it is pretty much what Apple fan-boys do. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:15 pm 
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You guys are hilarious. I do enjoy watching people put words in my mouth and then tell me that I'm wrong. Keep up the comedy!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:47 am 
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chaosdsm wrote:
Tedster wrote:
As for the performance, look at the benchmarks. an Intel i7 930 CPU beats anything that amd had, even the 1090t. there is a reason AMD parts are priced so low. that is where they perform.

Ted


Not True, not even close, basicly, anything that can utilize more than 4 physical cores will have the advantage on the 1090t thanks to the two extra real cores, while anything that can only use a maximum of 4 cores, will have the advantage on the i7-930. In fact the 1055t (stock) beats out the i7-940 (stock) in most benchmarks & programs that utilize 6 or more cores, and the 1090t (stock) even beats the i7-975 (stock) in more than a dozen synthetic benchmarks & some games. Unless you can afford a 6-core Intel CPU (i7-980 or one of the Xeon's), the 1090t is your best bet for Photoshop CS5 & Premiere Pro CS5, both of which can utilize more than 8 physical cores.

I'll leave you with this tidbit...
benchmark reviews wrote:
Benchmark Reviews begins our conclusion with a short summary for each of the areas that we rate. The first is performance, which considers how effective the AMD Phenom-II X6-1090T processor performance in operations against similar desktop CPU products. The first challenge is properly defining the competition, which by merit of price would be Intel's Core i7-920 processor, or could be the Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition CPU if you want to match the physical core count. If we base the competition by price (assuming AMD's assertion of a sub-$300 MSRP is legitimate), the Phenom-II X6-1090T is the hands-down winner on all fronts, as it beats the i7-920 in nearly all performance measures while also offering an unmatched price-performance ratio over the expensive i7-980X.

Aside from encryption scores, which shot Intel's i7-980X off the charts, AMD's X6-1090T delivered impressive results. The Music tests in PCMark Vantage certainly lend proof to at least one area of dominance, while the TV and Movies tests showed us that the X6-1090T could match performance with the 980X... and cost nearly $840 less. Gaming performance was moot, since most critics would agree that 1 FPS of difference is barely enough measure, and not enough to notice. In terms of real-world professional design application performance, nearly all 4-thread SPECviewperf benchmarks agreed that AMD made the best processor for their tasks.


Basicly, an AMD 6-core CPU is better for certian tasks, while a 4 or 6 core Intel CPU is better for other tasks, but there isn't a clear all-around winner... Yet because so many applications are still lacking support for more than 4 physical cores, Intel is better suited to a machine that does a wide variety of tasks.

You can find benchmarks that show damn-near anything nowadays. Do you agree that Anandtech is a highly respected review site? If not, you're wrong. Whether you respect them or not, a lot of people do, myself included. They definitely don't pull benchmarks out of their asses. And yet...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds ... reviewed/5
That page the the next several ones pretty strongly disagree with the points made in Benchmarks reviews. Here we see the 1090T usually only pulling ahead of the i5-750 and never touching i7s on non-encoding tasks. According to these benchmarks, if more or less all you do is encoding, an X6 is a safe bet, but otherwise, an i7 is the clear winner. I'm not going to hate on the Phenom IIs, because, as most here say, they certainly have their uses, but I just want to point out that with enough searching, you can find benchmarks that support almost any viewpoint.


Last edited by Spartacus on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:50 am 
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FunkySquirrel wrote:
There still is a clear Intel/nVidia/Creative Labs bias, though. Believe me, people see it. Years of "Well, this is good, but Intel's upcoming so-and-so will probably leave it in the dust" and "ATI's new card is great, but we eagerly await nVidia's next-gen tech, so that we can point to ATI and laugh" and "PLZ GIEF MORE CREATIVE LABS SOUND CARD NO OTHER CARD GUD ENUF ANY OTHER CARD MEANS PC CANCER!!!!!!!!!!!one", and people DO see it.

(Edited to add: Don't forget, when last year's Dream Machine turned out to be three pathetic "budget" creations, people like Jipstyle et al were drooling all over them, as the greatest creations of the modern PC era. So for them to now mock someone else, because they want more budget options... Well, I think we all know where I'm going here.)

Actually, I strongly agree with more or less all the people trying to talk some sense into you guys, and I strongly criticized last year's DM. You can check the old forum logs, I guarantee you'll fine some posts from myself criticizing that. Additionally, I am currently running two ATI 4870s in CrossFire with a non-creative sound card. Sounds like your stereotypes fall flat on their face when it comes to me. Maybe if you guys actually looked at some benchmarks results and stopped bellyaching over the fact that there is better hardware out there than yours, you'll realize that.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:36 am 
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Spartacus wrote:
Maybe if you guys actually looked at some benchmarks results and stopped bellyaching over the fact that there is better hardware out there than yours, you'll realize that.


The point of this thread is not to complain that other people have more expensive hardware as the materialists suggest; it's to voice my opinion that having my hardware insulted choices insulted on a regular basis to people I give money to for a magazine isn't a good business practice. If people here really think spending excessive money on stuff entitles them to superiority complexes then I'd be happy to sell them a $14 belt for $25,000. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:41 am 
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Insulting your hardware? Seriously? What happens when someone playfully insults your mother? You go grab your shotgun? Sounds like you need to take your computer's societal standing a little less seriously. Insult my hardware all you want, I don't care- it doesn't change the fact that its plenty fast for me. You don't like that, unsubscribe, but you better get ready to live a terrible life, because people aren't always going to tell you what you want to hear. In fact, people are very rarely going to tell you what you want to hear, and if someone does, you should immediately be suspicious of them. People don't kiss ass for no reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:57 am 
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JAB Creations wrote:
Spartacus wrote:
Maybe if you guys actually looked at some benchmarks results and stopped bellyaching over the fact that there is better hardware out there than yours, you'll realize that.


The point of this thread is not to complain that other people have more expensive hardware as the materialists suggest; it's to voice my opinion that having my hardware insulted choices insulted on a regular basis to people I give money to for a magazine isn't a good business practice. If people here really think spending excessive money on stuff entitles them to superiority complexes then I'd be happy to sell them a $14 belt for $25,000. :mrgreen:


Wait .. so, they should praise your hardware because you buy the magazine?

How long should they continue to do so? I'm curious. How much time needs to pass before they're allowed to discuss new hardware that outperforms yours?

Another thought: how many times do we need to say "your hardware is a good choice for you" before you stop feeling like a martyr?


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
Wait .. so, they should praise your hardware because you buy the magazine?

How long should they continue to do so? I'm curious. How much time needs to pass before they're allowed to discuss new hardware that outperforms yours?

Another thought: how many times do we need to say "your hardware is a good choice for you" before you stop feeling like a martyr?


With such unbelievably cocky arrogance I hereby nominate Jipstyle for the following awards...

- Least friendly mod
- Most unrealistically suggestive mod
- Most surprising person to be given moderator privileges
- Most likely person to abuse moderator privileges to insult other forum members
- Most likely mod to actively troll other people's threads
- Most likely person to afford a good system though opt for overkill instead of spending money on taking a girl out presuming he could get one
- Least deserving of moderator privileges

So Jip, who do you answer to out of curiosity? I'm sure they'd be proud to see you've been such a positive helpful person on the forums. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:28 pm 
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I'm not sure why this thread is continuing, but reading the comments are fun.


Oh and JAB Creations, remember, you came on here insulting Maximum PC. It's probably not the greatest idea to insult the moderators, but that's your choice.

Additionally, Spider Monkey wins most of those awards :P


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:18 pm 
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hackman2007 wrote:
Additionally, Spider Monkey wins most of those awards :P


Yeah, he is going to kick my ass for stealing them from him. Who knew that asking questions was so insulting?

:lol:

You're welcome to your opinion, JAB .. just don't try to force it on us and then play the martyr when we disagree. Better yet ... if you feel insulted when someone disagrees with you on the internet, stop posting your opinion on the internet.

Or .. post and cry. Your call. I'm enjoying the giggles .. you're almost as funny as that funky squirrel guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:42 am 
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Dood who is the squirrel guy? Probably a second user account of someone you banned in yesteryear. Amazing how people can hold grudges like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:03 am 
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Spartacus wrote:
Dood who is the squirrel guy? Probably a second user account of someone you banned in yesteryear. Amazing how people can hold grudges like that.


He seems more pissed at the magazine than at me .. but he sure does have a hate-on for me.

I do find the "you disagree with me therefore you're a troll and can't stand other people's opinions" people .. they can't see their hypocrisy because the steam from their ears fogs the mirror of their self-reflection.

Fuck .. that was almost poetical!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Intel bias and misuse of the word budget
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Also, another benchmark not often looked at is folding@home.

running the same clients and work units, my i7 920 at 3.3 ghz will get the same points as a phenon ii x6 at > 4 ghz

I definitely see a performance advantage for the Intel chip there clock for clock.





Ted


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