Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:27 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:48 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
Not at all what I meant. "Clearancing": moving (via hammer) and/or removing (via cutting tools) something to, well, provide clearance for something else.
Applied here, that would mean removing part of the PSU housing. Not necessary, thanks to that SATA L-cable.
(BTW: no cutting needed. All SATA drives, be it 2.5", 3.5", or 5.25", have the same connector layout. Fully interchangeable.)

Final mods complete, and it's moved into its new home! :)
Felt pads applied to optical drive; and, drive "mounted" (via felt pads, including one at the rear to keep it from sliding back):
Image

Image


Moved in and running (after about 40 minutes of removing now-unused cables from the rack, general cable relocating/rerouting, and actually installing the thing):
Image


And, after about 20 minutes, I started having overheating problems. :(
That was manifested as nasty video artifacting, and confirmed by sticking my hand in there - quite toasty!
I'll swing by Micro Center sometime this week and pick up two (maybe three?) 120mm case fans (and a Molex extention cable),
then (time permitting, as always...) pull the cabinet's back panel, cut holes (Dremel FTW here!), and mount the fans.
In the meantime, my temporary cabinet ventilation system is..... 20" box fan!
Image


During that maintenance cycle, I'm also going to relocate the subwoofer to the left side of the cabinet, so as to
hide the wall outlet, power strip, and UPS. That'll help a bunch with the general cleanliness of the setup.

One thing I'd like to do:
I'd like to have a delay-off circuit for the cabinet fans - ya know, get the space (and, with it, the equipment) cooled down after it drops to Standby.
Obviously, the system won't be able to power the fans at that point; but, the cabinet would still be rather, ah, warm.

Ideas? I'm not opposed to building a control board or something.....


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:22 pm 
Million Club
Million Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Chapel at Midgar
cup wrote:
.....One thing I'd like to do:
I'd like to have a delay-off circuit for the cabinet fans - ya know, get the space (and, with it, the equipment) cooled down after it drops to Standby.
Obviously, the system won't be able to power the fans at that point; but, the cabinet would still be rather, ah, warm.

Ideas? I'm not opposed to building a control board or something.....


You could make a back panel for the cabinet made of painted steel - preferably, to go with the rest of the cabinet and still be moddable later - with a couple of large, low RPM fans - and thus, QUIET - in the top where the hot air would collect to help it on its way and a nice rounded off cutout at the bottom for your cables and power to get in - and cool air too.

Assuming that you have a glass door for the front of the cabinet and closed-off sides, the center shelf, when moved all the way to the back to cut off the bottom half of the cabinet from the top but leave a space in the front would act as a decent porting mechanism for the cool air to come into the cabinet at the back bottom (drawn in by the exhaust fans installed at the back top of the cabinet) and cool both the components on the bottom AND the top shelves. You could even get some attached to a small 12v power pack from an old laptop and, when properly terminated and modulated - I would use a universal power adapter for this - you could also attach some fan speed controls discreetly inside of the cabinet, but under the lip where they could remain relatively unseen.

Here is a decent molex power adapter you could use for a fan or two:
OKGEAR PA-AD-UL-1.2M AC/DC Power Adapter W/ 4pin Molex Connector $10

And now I also want to build a setup like this. :P


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:06 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
Why make a steel back panel, when I already have one?
When I built the cabinet (5 years ago, I think?), it got (as part of the build) a 1/8" Luon (plywood-ish) back panel - quite strong, but very workable. Cutting a hole or two in it, notsohard (especially with the Dremel, and the circle-cutting attachment for it. ;) )

No glass door, and no shelves. When I built the cabinet, I didn't want the added expense (or the ventilation kill) of a door, and haven't had the desire since to add one.
Same goes for shelves - they add construction cost (and space limitations.) So, there are none - things simply sit on things in there.

That could be a useful wall-wart there, though - but, I still would like a way to actually shut the fans off a short while after the system drops to Standby.
I was thinking a pair of 120mm fans (by their very nature, they're quiet); a 12v wall wart from Radio Shack; a Molex extention cable; and, a control board of some type (to provide instant-on, but delayed-off functionality.)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:59 pm 
Million Club
Million Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Chapel at Midgar
I suppose that building a circuit would be easy, but you would need it to be autonomous right? That type of functionality in a fan controller would require more money than it is worth to build from scratch, but with a decent one from off of newegg that is meant for a case, you may be pretty well-off. You may even find one that can run off of a wall-wart also and most have the ability to be programmed to turn on/off/throttle the fan speed with relatively little fuss. However, one issue that may arise is that it would not automatically turn off - even if it does shut off the fans likely via a temperature sensor calibration - you would likely still have the power draw and possible back-light from the controller to contend with.

At any rate, here are a few good options:

Logisys Thermal Fan Controller $25
NZXT Sentry Touch-Screen Fan Controller W/Temp Alarm $64

Not a fan of Logisys, but it's a good example of a cheap one, which there are a lot of.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:29 am 
Team Member*
Team Member*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 1982
Location: FL
Cup,
You are a pain in the ass man, :) , I have done a lot of digging for this one!
Let me first say that I had a similar issue with my AVR, I had to cool the hell out of it and I ended going with 2-200mm fans and they work perfectly! I mounted mine to a piece of lexan and cut out custom fan grills that are built into the design.
I used this pair of cooler master fans, the LEDs kinda suck but you can remove the leads to them if you want. I then found a wall wart with a .8A 12vdc supply here is one. 800mA is more than you should need @ max you will need .56A.
If you would like you can also go with a 500mA WW it won't hurt the WW to hit max for a few secs.( generally for start up.)here is one.
I then used the leads that came with the fans to make them easily removable. I cut the molex connectors out and cut off the plug end of the PS/WW then soldered them together in parallel. I then used some heat shrink to make it nice and tidy.

Now for the hard part, the off delay. You can construct a circuit with a 555 timer if you wanted but my brain will have to lament on that one, its too early in the morning for my brain to turn on! Here is one alternative this makes things a bit complex but I think I can make it work if you need it that bad! Personally I keep mine on its own surge strip and turn it off and on as needed.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:02 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
Good ideas from all.
I kinda like the idea of running a thermostatic fan controller off of a wall-wart (as to the controller's display light: that's nothing that can't be solved with, say, duct tape ;) ); however, I think I like the idea of the delay-off controller better. Nice find, Wiked.
Using a transistor, triggered by the serial port, shouldn't be all that hard to do - I'm pretty sure I can figure that one out.

I'll think about both options for a bit. It'll be a couple of weeks, probably, before I even have the time to implement anything, anyways (no matter what I do, I have to take the box offline just to pull the back panel from the cabinet.)

We'll see........

Oh, and: yes, I am a pain in the ass. :P
But, I'm not afraid to ask for a little advice when I'm trying to do something 'new.' If I have no idea on how to do it (and, can't quite seem to come up with a proper Google search term), I'll ask. ;)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:23 pm 
Million Club
Million Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Chapel at Midgar
cup wrote:
Good ideas from all.
I kinda like the idea of running a thermostatic fan controller off of a wall-wart (as to the controller's display light: that's nothing that can't be solved with, say, duct tape ;) ....


There are some which will have the option to turn the backlight off but it will come on when it is touched or an alarm sounds - for temperature reasons, mostly.

I found this HTPC case laying around the shop and my boss decided to give it to me today, so I plan to build my own HTPC into it at some point.
Antec Overture II
Image

Unfortunately, I have not found the top panel for it, or the USB/Firewire/Audio front panel connectors for it and must endeavor to find them before I can build. The firewire being gone is nothing, but the others would be quite bothersome. There is this guy in town that says he can make me a custom panel to fit the top, but we'll see.

....And I know just the place to come to for advice. :D


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:25 am 
Million Club - 5 Plus
Million Club - 5 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:35 am
Posts: 1998
cup wrote:
Using a transistor, triggered by the serial port, shouldn't be all that hard to do - I'm pretty sure I can figure that one out.


you can probably trigger it using just by using a 3.3/5/12v lead off the PSU (whichever matches the input trigger voltage spec). the way I (quickly) read it, the timer starts after power is removed from the trigger, not from the when the trigger is initially hit. just use a common ground (tie the PSU and timer grounds together).

you may want 4 fans.. 2 at the level between the receiver and HTPC (pull the heat from the receiver away before it can be sucked into the HTPC) and 2 at the top of the cabinet. or swap the positions of the components.. put the HTPC on the bottom. the receiver can probably stand the heat better. my harman kardon AVR gets pretty darned hot.

EDIT: if the trigger input is 5v maybe use a USB port.. its 5v and ground. just hack a suitable length USB cable, solder the USB +5 lead to the trigger input and USB ground lead to delay unit ground. then tuck the delay unit up in the cabinet somewhere. the delay unit, fan harness and USB cable all stay in the cabinet and its easy to disconnect when you need to work on the HTPC. the fans and delay unit will still be powered by the wall wart but the trigger will be from the USB port (as long as the USB port actually powers down when the PC is off).

EDIT 2: finally had the chance to read the data sheet. its pretty much perfect. it uses a switch connected to its trigger input to start the fans, when the switch is released the timer keeps the fans running from 2 - 45 mins. use a relay (takes the place of the trigger switch) on a lead from the HTPC (5v for USB like described above, or 5/12v for PSU molex, depending on which lead). when the HTPC is started the trigger relay closes, the delay timer device powers the fans as long as the relay is closed. when the HTPC is shut down the trigger relay is opened and the countdown starts; the timer still powers the fans for the 2-45 min period. the 12V DC for the timer and fans is isolated from the computer PSU (via the relay) so no chance of a ground loop or interference. once its built just plug and play, nothing else (like software or batch files/scripts etc) needed.

I like that thing. nice find, Wicked. might get one for a similar setup.. receiver and HTPC in a closed cabinet.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:27 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
I thought I had read in the datasheet that it needed a second signal line connected to it; but, I like your read better.
Even if it does need that, well, that can be supplied by the same +12v lead that triggers the relay that one would use (in this case) to replace the start button.

I'm thinking that I'm definitely going to go this route. I'd be out maybe $50-60 for the wall wart, a pair of fans, grilles (optional), the board itself, and a mini relay. Not bad.
And, it wouldn't be all that hard to mount the board to the back panel of the cabinet, hidden from view.

Switching via the USB ports is not an option - I'm fresh out of those on the rear of the machine. The UPS, keyboard receiver, IR receiver, and SDV adapter have used up my four rear-panel ports.
However, running a line thru the back of the case (from a Molex connector) wouldn't be all that hard - I even have a few unused expansion slots I can use!

Thanks to all for the advice (and parts-finding) here. 8)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:41 am 
Team Member*
Team Member*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 1982
Location: FL
Hey guys!
Cup,
I would definitely go off the 12Vdc on the molex its seems like your best option.
I will post a schematic later today.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:06 am 
Team Member*
Team Member*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 1982
Location: FL
edit
Apparently wrong image, sorry. Not sure why the link is doing that. Oh well, I'm sure you know what your doing any way I'll leave you to it. Let us know how it all goes.


Last edited by Wiked_smart on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:28 pm 
Million Club - 5 Plus
Million Club - 5 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:35 am
Posts: 1998
?

youre powering the delay unit from the HTPC PSU 12v line? when the HTPC power is shut off the power to the delay unit will also go off and its on board relay will open, powering down the fans.

I thought the idea was to run the delay unit and fans off a 12 V DC wall wart and only use the 12v line on the HTPC to energize an external relay for the trigger switch. the delay unit and fans need independent power.

BTW the image displays sometimes, sometimes not. weird. FF 3.6.12


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:29 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
@ Wiked: your pic is broken here, too. (IE8, Win7 x86. Same at work (IE8 for XP.))

Anyhoo.... now that we've figured out how the relay board is supposed to work (and be wired), thanks to the datasheet, wiring it is a no-brainer:
Wall wart to provide power to the board (and, with it, the fans); PC (via +12v line) fires a mini-relay to "hit the button" on the relay board. When PC shuts down (or goes to sleep), timer starts on relay board (because 'the button has been released.') Simple. 8)

Just need to order some parts now....


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:43 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
Found the time to build my cooling system today (yay!)
The parts:
Image
Cabinet rear panel, 3 120mm fans, fan grilles; some fan extention wires (which I ended up not using); the timer board; a 12v relay (for isolation from the PC); a 1.5A 12v wall wart from Radio Shack, and a DC power jack for it.

Initial layout done (need to make sure it'll all fit...):
Image


Masking tape is great for plotting things out on! Here, the layout is all drawn out (lay it down, and trace it with a pen - works for me!),
and, holes all plotted out. The screw holes for the fans were plotted by the 'screwdriver thru the holes' method.
The holes for the timer board, I had to do by careful measurement, because I'm mounting it 'backwards.' Reason: I want the adjustment pot to be accessable from outside of the cabinet.
Finding the center point for the fan holes, that's the easy part: just use a straightedge (or, a handy DVD case), and make an X off of the screw holes.
Image


How to make big holes? Why, a Dremel (of course!), with the circle-cutting attachment:
Image


All holes drilles and cut:
Image
Never mind the naked areas on the panel - they've been there for years (they're from holesaw cutting the original
cable holes, and are hidden by the equipment in the cabinet. But, I'll touch those up with a Sharpie when I'm doing my new holes, too.)


View from outside, with the fans, timer board mounts, and power jack mounted:
Image


And, a pic of the fully-assembled (and, running, too!) setup:
Image
Note the second 1.5" hole - this was cut to replace the older top 1.5" cable hole (lost to a fan.) Need two holes, due to the sheer amount of cabling that passes thru the rear panel.



The timer board, I mounted with some 8-32 screws and nuts I scrounged up at the house (3 nuts per screw, creating a standoff mount.)
There's a extra hole in the panel, right behind the timer board, allowing access to the adjustment pot (in case I need to change it from its current 10 minute delay.)

Now, I just need to find the time to shut down the box, and put the rear panel back on.

I did need to re-read the board's wiring diagrams, after the fans were initally non-functional:
I hadn't realized that the relay's load side is electrically isolated from the board itself. :oops:
Hence, the wire that you see passing over the board - that one connects the fans' negative leads to the power jack's negative terminal.
The yellow wire jogging up the left side, that runs from the power jack's + terminal to the NO relay connection (fan + is connected to COM.)

As for the relay (which is wire-tied to the bottom of the lower (middle) fan): that was procured from K40 (they make hardwire radar detectors.) We get that relay from them at the dealership to install systems into our newer cars (no real load-capable ignition-switched power supplies.)
Really, really useful little thing, it is.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:15 pm 
Million Club
Million Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:04 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Chapel at Midgar
Did you find a way to throttle the fans back a few RPM so that when you are watching a quiet part of a movie - or even not - you won't be hearing the buzz of fans? (Though I daresay, those did look like low-RPM fans you bought).

Very nice though, all said.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:38 pm 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
They're very quiet fans - I got 3 Scythe SY1225SL12L 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fans. On the table (read: out in the open), you can't even hear them running over the room's normal background noise.
And, I got the back panel installed tonight, too - in place, you can only hear them if you put your head within a foot of them (which, itself, means that the cabinet is pulled away from the wall.) Very nice. 8)

They're quite low-speed (and, low-noise) fans - that's why I picked them. On paper, they looked like a good balance of airflow and noise levels. 800 RPM, 40 CFM, only 10.7dB. On paper, dead-nuts quiet. In person, dead-nuts quiet.
And, with the trio pulling a combined 120 cubic feet per minute thru the cabinet, it's nice and cool in there (and, with essentially no noise.) Me like. :)


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod (now with cabinet cooling!)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:05 am 
Team Member*
Team Member*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 1982
Location: FL
So how did the whole delay time out work? I am very curious!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: HTPC case mod (now with cabinet cooling!)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:10 am 
Million Club [PC]*
Million Club [PC]*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:29 pm
Posts: 4912
Location: Motor City, folding for Mom
On the bench, it works fine - fans shut down 10 minutes after I start them (by simply shorting the 'push' terminals on the board.)
But, I'm currently having Sleep issues with the PC (read: it won't sleep.) Once I get that working again, I'm confident that the fan control will continue to work as designed.


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group