Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:48 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:36 am 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
For a future build i was thinking of 2 peltiers and sandwiching them between water blocks, than having two loops. the first would be pump, cold side of peltier 1, cpu, cold side of peltier 2, gpu, reservoir. i also thought of adding a radiator in the loop if there is case room. the second loop would be pump, hot side of peltier 1, radiator, hot side of peltier 2, radiator, reservoir.

has anyone had any experience with a setup like this? would it be worth the expense?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:17 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
Without a rad, how do you expect to keep the water cool? Pelts generate a LOT of heat.

I don't like them, personally. You're adding heat to the system in order to generate the cold side ... adding heat to the equation is counter-productive unless you're going for a very high OC and have lots of rads and fans to get rid of the extra calories.

I prefer fast, stable and quiet to really fast and loud.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:44 pm 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
Jipstyle wrote:
Without a rad, how do you expect to keep the water cool? Pelts generate a LOT of heat.


um, it plainly reads that the hot side loop would use two rads. the idea was to have one 1x1 venting out the back, and one 1x2 venting out the top. it's also possible with a slight mod to put a 1x1 in front, witch would also venting out. to counter the exhaust i thought of using a massive intake fan on the side.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:47 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:43 pm
Posts: 4171
Location: Richmond, TX
Peltiers are more hassle than they're worth. Condensation issues (known to kill motherboards) and if the peltier itself fails it can destroy the processor due to intense heat.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:48 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
schneider1492 wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
Without a rad, how do you expect to keep the water cool? Pelts generate a LOT of heat.


um, it plainly reads that the hot side loop would use two rads. the idea was to have one 1x1 venting out the back, and one 1x2 venting out the top. it's also possible with a slight mod to put a 1x1 in front, witch would also venting out. to counter the exhaust i thought of using a massive intake fan on the side.


You specified two loops. One with rads and one without.

When we talk about 'loops', we are talking about separate loops. So your post described two separate loops and only one of them had a rad.

I still think that pelts require more cooling than they are worth but it sounds like you have a pretty crazy 'solution'.

Are you saying that you want to put waterblocks on BOTH sides of your pelts?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:57 pm 
Million Club - 20 Plus
Million Club - 20 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 4294
I think that he wants to have peltiers cooling the water in loop 1 (computer parts) with the waterblocks, and loop 2 cools the peltiers with a bunch of radiators.





Ted


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:59 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
Nope, he actually says that he wants to sandwich the pelts between waterblocks. So they aren't cooling components .. they are cooling AND heating the water in the loop at the same time.

Basically burning energy for no reason?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:18 pm 
Million Club - 20 Plus
Million Club - 20 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 4294
The OP says that the cold sides of the peltiers would be against water blocks on in one loop with the CPU/GPU/etc, and the hot sides of the peltiers would be in a loop with only radiators, etc.





Ted


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:38 pm 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
Jipstyle wrote:
Nope, he actually says that he wants to sandwich the pelts between waterblocks. So they aren't cooling components .. they are cooling AND heating the water in the loop at the same time.

Basically burning energy for no reason?


seriously? do i need to draw a picture? your the only person that is having a hard time understanding what i plainly typed out in detail!
schneider1492 wrote:
The first would be pump, cold side of peltier 1, cpu, cold side of peltier 2, gpu, reservoir.

That is loop one!
schneider1492 wrote:
the second loop would be pump, hot side of peltier 1, radiator, hot side of peltier 2, radiator, reservoir

Thats loop two!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:41 pm 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
LondoJowo wrote:
Peltiers are more hassle than they're worth. Condensation issues (known to kill motherboards) and if the peltier itself fails it can destroy the processor due to intense heat.

That's why the pelts are no ware near the motherboard.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:54 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:43 pm
Posts: 4171
Location: Richmond, TX
You will be running chilled water through the supply lines and water blocks which will sweat (collect condensate) in a warm environment. I would also think that condensation could form internally in the processor as well.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:09 am 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
Quote:
seriously? do i need to draw a picture? your the only person that is having a hard time understanding what i plainly typed out in detail!


I have trouble understanding stupidity and this idea is utterly fucking stupid.

I admit that I glossed over what you wrote and gave you the benefit of the doubt.

So, to answer your question: no, no one has ever used a peltier to both heat AND cool a waterloop because the idea of adding calories to a loop is utterly stupid.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:11 am 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
LondoJowo wrote:
You will be running chilled water through the supply lines and water blocks which will sweat (collect condensate) in a warm environment. I would also think that condensation could form internally in the processor as well.


This is only an issue as the loop finds its balance. Once that happens, the water will be far from chilled because he is also adding heat to his loop by putting waterblocks on the hot side of the pelts as well as the cold.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:41 pm 
Million Club - 20 Plus
Million Club - 20 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 5:32 am
Posts: 4294
I think I get it:

there are 2 seperate loops


Diagrams:

Loop 1:

[cold side of peltier 1] -> [cpu] -> [cold side of peltier 2] -> [gpu's] -> [pump] -> [cold side of peltier 1]

Loop 2:

[hot side of peltier 1] -> [radiator] -> [hot side of peltier 2] -> [radiator] -> [pump] -> [hot side of peltier 1]



OP, is this right?





Ted


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:02 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
The tubes might be separate but the loops aren't. They are joined at the peltiers.

Electricity is converted into thermal energy at the peltier. The cool side cools one loop and the hot side is cooled by the other loop. Additional thermal energy is added by the components of the PC.

Basically, he is adding energy to the loop in the form of the peltier and adding complexity to the setup in the form of the separate tubes. This added complexity removes the need to waterproof the board and is akin to hunting gophers with grenades. It also removes the benefit of using a peltier: having a cold surface for cooler-than-room-temperature cooling.

Since the cooling power of the peltier will be balanced in time by the heat added to the loop, you'll see no performance gain whatsoever. A peltier is only effective when the cooling surface is in direct contact with the component to be cooled.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:49 pm 
Team Member Top 500
Team Member Top 500
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:15 pm
Posts: 2424
Just put a damn ac condenser or a refrigerator condenser in a tub of anti-freeze/water and pump water out of the tub to be used in the loop. And by tub I mean some form of huge sealed container.

Anyway peltiers are complicated http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=76115 have a read through that and then look through all of these forum posts and notice how basically no one uses them... http://www.evga.com/forums/tt.aspx?forumid=37

Now if you want something awesome build get one of these.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:17 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
Danthrax66 wrote:
Just put a damn ac condenser or a refrigerator condenser in a tub of anti-freeze/water and pump water out of the tub to be used in the loop. And by tub I mean some form of huge sealed container.
.


This is a particularly good idea because it removes the heat source from the case.

Rule of thumb: cooling something involves moving, not destroying, heat. It's gotta go somewhere.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:57 pm 
Team Member Top 500
Team Member Top 500
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:15 pm
Posts: 2424
I ahte getting distracted by these I meant this: http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=1 ... ng&mpage=1


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:56 am 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
Tedster wrote:
I think I get it:

there are 2 seperate loops


Diagrams:

Loop 1:

[cold side of peltier 1] -> [cpu] -> [cold side of peltier 2] -> [gpu's] -> [pump] -> [cold side of peltier 1]

Loop 2:

[hot side of peltier 1] -> [radiator] -> [hot side of peltier 2] -> [radiator] -> [pump] -> [hot side of peltier 1]



OP, is this right?





Ted


Yes ted that is correct. cold side cools the water that goes to the cpu and gpu. the water in the hot side goes to the radiator. the water that touches the cold side of the peltier never touches the hot side of a peltier.

Jipstyle is ether not reading the post or just trolling. i guess Jipstyle must think im running from cold side, to component, than to hot side or something. that would indead be stupid. i just don't understand how someone who actually read it could think that, but i guess once the picture is in his head he changes the words he reads to fit his minds picture.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2 loop wc peltier
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:15 am 
8086
8086
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:06 am
Posts: 96
one of the reasons i started this topic is all info i found on pelts where vary old or extremely vague, so thanks for the link.
Danthrax66 wrote:
Anyway peltiers are complicated http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=76115 have a read through that and then look through all of these forum posts and notice how basically no one uses them... http://www.evga.com/forums/tt.aspx?forumid=37

that is a lot of math lol.
Danthrax66 wrote:
I ahte getting distracted by these I meant this: http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=1 ... ng&mpage=1

how does that bong looking thing work? there are pictures but im going to look for the thread that shows how it works.


Last edited by schneider1492 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group