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 Post subject: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:38 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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I am guessing they are just indifferent. Below is a series of emails I recently exchanged with Microsoft Corporate. I could not post all the emails due to the fact that some have a confidentiality disclaimer. You really don't need to read the omitted emails to understand what is going on.

First email -


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Second email -

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I receive a response to the second email. It basically says that Andrew Larson is reviewing my complaint and I received a complimentary phone call.

I then replied saying that due to my anxiety I would rather correspond through email rather than come across as rude or aggressive over the phone.

Andrew Larson, still polite and professional, then replies aploigizing for my past customer support and that they continue to improve upon it, he can't give me a free controller, understands I spent a bit of money trying to get things right, suggests I trade in my old controllers for the new and improved controller at a store that accepts trade ins, apoligizes for this not being the ideal solution, and that my emails were being read on a corporate level.

My response -


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In reply to this email Andrew Larson was sorry my trade in credit was minimal, they are in no position to give me a free controller, his understanding of my "fondness" for the new 360 and controller, falsely accusing me of stating that the "D" pad on the 360 controller did not function at all, reminding me they offer repair services, and finally to stop sending emails to an email address concerning this issue. I am still uncertain as to what email address he is referring to. I have left Andrew Larson's reply as I received it. This email did not include a name or the confidentiality disclaimer.


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and I receive this...

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ok, Gmail? -

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No response...

I like how Andrew Larson is on a first name basis with me yet he is "Mr. Larson".

Truly sad that a multibillion dollar corporation lies so blatantly and just dismisses those who point out something they would rather not have pointed out.

The "D" pad is useless playing a lot of games that require it. The Arcade titles and 2D titles in particular. Just trying to navigate the dashboard with the "D" pad is frustrating.

Capcom sourced Mad Catz to make a whole new controller to play Street Fighter 4 properly on the 360 and Microsoft wouldn't even let them make it wireless. I am sure that the true gamers on this forum will laugh and say PC gaming is the best and I agree. I also know there are console gamers here that have the same frustrations as I have with the "D" pad on all OEM 360 controllers currently available.

So what do you think people? Don't call me an idiot for buying multiple 360s, I already know that. Have any questions about my past Microsoft CSR calls? Try owning multiple 360s and getting the red ring on one, have it repaired, and a year later get the red ring on a totally different 360 SKU. Oh, the humanity...


-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:11 pm 
Northwood
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just fyi this should be in the "Dog House"


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:25 am 
Team Dino
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While I side with you, I know that if Microsoft were to admit responsibility for the flaw in their controller over an e-mail, it would likely result in the filing a class action lawsuit.

There have been a number of issues that have kept me from purchasing a X-Box 360, the first was RRoD, second is the 'security' of their wireless technology for the controllers, and finally seeing evidence that the controllers have been screwed up since the beginning.

Sony has their own problems with the PS3, but I have yet to be shat on as you have.

Please keep us up to date though! I am interested in the outcome.

n0b0dykn0ws


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:41 am 
Java Junkie
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Sounds to me like you got a response, didn't like it, and continued to bitch. I'd have blocked you too.

I've been playing with my 360 for years and never had a problem with the D-pad ... so have many, many others. There is a huge difference between a product that does not work and a product that sucks.

You think it sucks. So do a lot of people. I think that the acceleration on my old k-car sucked but I never imagined I could phone up a Plymouth dealer and insist they give me a new engine ... not even when they released a new, fuel-injected engine in new k-cars that had almost 10 more HP!

Life's hard, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:54 am 
Thunderbird
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Is this really problem? Or are you just showing us how you troll Microsoft?

I am being serious. I am not sure if you are really that affected by this. If you are not serious, then I have been trolled as well.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:58 am 
Java Junkie
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DDB's trolls ARE serious.

That's part of the reason he is so odd.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:57 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Jipstyle wrote:
Sounds to me like you got a response, didn't like it, and continued to bitch. I'd have blocked you too.

I've been playing with my 360 for years and never had a problem with the D-pad ... so have many, many others. There is a huge difference between a product that does not work and a product that sucks.

You think it sucks. So do a lot of people. I think that the acceleration on my old k-car sucked but I never imagined I could phone up a Plymouth dealer and insist they give me a new engine ... not even when they released a new, fuel-injected engine in new k-cars that had almost 10 more HP!

Life's hard, I guess.


Very True. I did get a response I didn't like. The one where Andrew Larson called me a liar. If it wasn't for that I'd would never have replied back.

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:02 pm 
Java Junkie
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Well, you did lie. You said the pad was defective. It isn't.

It just doesn't work as well as you'd like.

Now, I wouldn't call you a liar .. since that implies a pattern of lying .. but you did utter "a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth."


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:04 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Consolitis wrote:
Is this really problem? Or are you just showing us how you troll Microsoft?

I am being serious. I am not sure if you are really that affected by this. If you are not serious, then I have been trolled as well.


Unfortunately I am serious. So serious that I sent this thread link to the http://consumerist.com/.

I have had problems with the Microsoft Xbox 360's controller's "D" pad since day 1. I even asked The Consumerist to have Consumer Reports gather all the controllers that contain a "D" pad throughout gaming history and review them. I also told them that the 360's "D" pad would receive the WORST rating IMO.

The "D" pad has already been pretty much perfected decades ago. Why MS tried to reinvent the wheel and fail is questionable.

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:06 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Jipstyle wrote:
Well, you did lie. You said the pad was defective. It isn't.

It just doesn't work as well as you'd like.

Now, I wouldn't call you a liar .. since that implies a pattern of lying .. but you did utter "a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth."


Defect may have been the wrong word to use. Engineering design flaw more accurately describes the problem.

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:12 pm 
Java Junkie
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Quote:
Defect may have been the wrong word to use. Engineering design flaw more accurately describes the problem.


It works. Push up .. it registers 'up'. Push right .. it registers 'right'. Etc..

Is it good? Not particularly, no. Neither is a Prius .. but it does function in the manner advertised.

You bought how many consoles, exactly? And now you're harping about the numerous complaints and reviews on Google about how bad the product is?

If you waste your money on one console and find out it doesn't work to your liking .. well, that sucks. And I'd still probably tell you to do more research before dumping your money into something .. but hey .. maybe you bought before the console had received much attention ... (rofflecopters).

But you've bought several consoles. They all have the same problem because they have all the same controller .. and the controller sucks. You know that it sucks. You know that google brings lots of reviews from people who say it sucks.

So stop fucking buying the sucking controller!!.

Whining about it after the fact .. that's just childish. Next time, do some research. Exercise some due diligence. And then buy yourself an after-market controller that does what you want it to do.

You don't get a refund for buying a shitty product ... you get a refund for buying a broken product. The d-pad works .. poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:40 pm 
Thunderbird
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Keyboard and mouse beats everything in the house.

D-Pads , i think, are overlooked. it seems like wasted buttons. they give you 2 thumb sticks, already. Microsoft should come out with a D-Pad-less controller to satisfy "apparent" needs. Then players can badmouth the price of the gimped controllers, instead of complaining about the d-pad, itself. Players get no d-pad, Microsoft gets money.

so if its not working in games you do play, maybe test it on stuff like tetris or assassin's creed 1, because you need the d-pad (least in assassin's creed 1) to switch weapons. while i do have a 360 controller, i don't think the d-pad is as bad as you might think it is - but i just don't use it, and buy games that don't rely heavily on it.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:03 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Jipstyle wrote:
Quote:
Defect may have been the wrong word to use. Engineering design flaw more accurately describes the problem.


It works. Push up .. it registers 'up'. Push right .. it registers 'right'. Etc..

Is it good? Not particularly, no. Neither is a Prius .. but it does function in the manner advertised.

You bought how many consoles, exactly? And now you're harping about the numerous complaints and reviews on Google about how bad the product is?

If you waste your money on one console and find out it doesn't work to your liking .. well, that sucks. And I'd still probably tell you to do more research before dumping your money into something .. but hey .. maybe you bought before the console had received much attention ... (rofflecopters).

But you've bought several consoles. They all have the same problem because they have all the same controller .. and the controller sucks. You know that it sucks. You know that google brings lots of reviews from people who say it sucks.

So stop fucking buying the sucking controller!!.

Whining about it after the fact .. that's just childish. Next time, do some research. Exercise some due diligence. And then buy yourself an after-market controller that does what you want it to do.

You don't get a refund for buying a shitty product ... you get a refund for buying a broken product. The d-pad works .. poorly.


If you know of a wireless aftermarket controller that functions correctly please let me know.

Push up on an OEM controller and it may go up, or up/left, or up/right. I am a hardcore Street Fighter player. You can not play the game as intended with the OEM controller. I would like to give Mad Catz mad props for building an awesome controller to play the game but shouldn't I have been able to play it as intended with the OEM controller? I saw no disclaimer on the packaging of Street Fighter 4 saying a proper directional pad is required to play, not 100% compatible with the OEM 360 controller due to the fact that the inputs are wonky. lol, I think that is the first time I ever used the word wonky. Word up!

Remember the old days when a game sucked because of poor controls? Now that the future has arrived it is the controller that sucks. Ironic?

Yes, I wasted my time and money. Yes, I had faith in Microsoft. Yes, I should have waited, Googled, then researched the cosmetically different OEM controllers before buying another controller SKU. BUT it is just a directional pad! If I buy a spoon I expect it to hold liquid and not spill off the sides.

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:20 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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bingojubes wrote:
Keyboard and mouse beats everything in the house.

D-Pads , i think, are overlooked. it seems like wasted buttons. they give you 2 thumb sticks, already. Microsoft should come out with a D-Pad-less controller to satisfy "apparent" needs. Then players can badmouth the price of the gimped controllers, instead of complaining about the d-pad, itself. Players get no d-pad, Microsoft gets money.

so if its not working in games you do play, maybe test it on stuff like tetris or assassin's creed 1, because you need the d-pad (least in assassin's creed 1) to switch weapons. while i do have a 360 controller, i don't think the d-pad is as bad as you might think it is - but i just don't use it, and buy games that don't rely heavily on it.


Yes! Tetris type puzzle games are especially frustrating. Pressing down to get a block or puzzle piece to travel faster does lead to unintentional down-right/left movements causing the player to not place the piece where it was intended. An 8 way "D" pad is not complicated. As an older gamer I like playing titles from my youth that do rely exclusively on the "D" pad and would like to play those classic titles with a "D" pad that works in a similar fashion to the "D" pads of yesteryear.

I believe a lot of younger gamers have just adapted themselves to the poor design. Kinda like New Coke and Coke Classic. If you never drank a glass of Classic you'll never know what you are missing (if New Coke was still around).

I also agree that the "D" pad was overlooked IMO because the powers that be at MS IMO said the "next-generation" of games wouldn't rely upon such ancient technology.

I am sure glad car makers don't feel this way and our wheels are still round. Those square Canadian wheels are a pain!

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:24 pm 
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I still have yet to see what this issue is with the D-Pad, and I've used numerous 360 controllers, including the 4 that I have. I just don't see the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:08 am 
Thunderbird
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You clearly are not happy with the design of the product. I have the same issue with the PSPGo's design; doesn't allow UMDs, nor the ability to accept a copy of your UMDs (legally). Also, my big meaty hands can not deal with the smaller cripple finger like design of the PSPGo. So, I refused to buy it.

Also, I refuse to buy games upon release. Especially since in the past year or so release titles get a $30-$40 price drop a couple of months after release. And, with this DLC business, it ends up costing over $100 for a game. I just end up waiting.

Frankly, if you don't like it, don't buy it. None the less, if you get whatever you feel you deserve from your effort, congrats.

And the d-pad on the 360 controller does take some getting used to, but it still works. Nothing worth going on a campaign for.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:55 am 
Moderator
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Consolitis wrote:
Nothing worth going on a campaign for.


No shit, I have a 360 and have no idea what you are talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:00 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Phosphorous wrote:
Consolitis wrote:
Nothing worth going on a campaign for.


No shit, I have a 360 and have no idea what you are talking about.


Quick, what is your age?

-ddb


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:34 pm 
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35, been gaming since I was a kid.

Game systems I've owned or still own:

Magnavox Odyssey²
Atari Pong
Atari 2600 Had a Chuck Norris game for it also.
Atari 2600 Jr. (cause my old school one broke)
Nintendo
Super Nintendo
Playstation
Xbox
Xbox360
Wii

Systems I've played that my cousin has owned:
Coleco
Atari 5200
Intellivision
Sega
Sega Genesis
Sega Dreamcast
Neo Geo
Playstation II
Playstation III
Sega Saturn
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Gamecube

I'm pretty much a hardcore PC gamer right now when time allows between work, family, and getting my bachelors degree. If I'd have to guess I've been gaming for roughly 33 years between consoles, arcades, pinball, and PC gaming.


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 Post subject: Re: How Microsoft Corporate treats gamers or How to P off MS
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:52 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Phosphorous wrote:
35, been gaming since I was a kid.

Game systems I've owned or still own:

Magnavox Odyssey²
Atari Pong
Atari 2600 Had a Chuck Norris game for it also.
Atari 2600 Jr. (cause my old school one broke)
Nintendo
Super Nintendo
Playstation
Xbox
Xbox360
Wii

Systems I've played that my cousin has owned:
Coleco
Atari 5200
Intellivision
Sega
Sega Genesis
Sega Dreamcast
Neo Geo
Playstation II
Playstation III
Sega Saturn
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Gamecube

I'm pretty much a hardcore PC gamer right now when time allows between work, family, and getting my bachelors degree. If I'd have to guess I've been gaming for roughly 33 years between consoles, arcades, pinball, and PC gaming.


Very cool! Ok, one question. Would you rather play 360 games that require a directional pad with a Sega Genesis controller or the OEM 360 controller?

I have to laugh at MS for making such a loose "D" pad. If this was an automobile it would be recalled for steering slop. I wish some Chinese KIRF shop would make an "improvement kit" for the current 360 controller. Coffee can lids are BS... The "D" pad needs to be tighter and more precise. MS built a fine "D" pad into the Sidewinder, and the original Xbox controller was a joy, so why they screwed up on the 360 is curious.

I built this fine 8-way controller to work with my PC and original Xbox from scratch using wood, arcade parts, and a desire to have a precise controller. I succeeded. It is not rocket science. :) Doesn't MS employ rocket scientist level educated engineers? Oh wait, our space program kinda sucks too.

Image

-ddb
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