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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:49 pm 
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Spartacus wrote:
logicmaster2003 wrote:
for Gaming = PC
for video-editing = mac ( I guess, although PC also have tons of freewares, sharewares, softwares)

Why? That misconception has taken the video and photo industry by storm. The thought that Macs are better for photo and video editing is downright false, no matter how you cut it. A lot of people have run tests on Macs- I've seen one with the older 22" Macs with an E7200, 2GB of DDR2-667, and a GeForce 9400M. They ran it against a PC with the same specs and Windows Vista, and the Mac generally outperformed the PC by 2-6% (because OS X is lighter on resources then Vista). So why do so many people say Macs are better for video editing?
Simple answer: there's a lot more affordable video editing apps for Macs then for PC's. So video editors start on Macs and by the time they move into the professional range, they are already sworn Mac users.


Actually, this is pretty well untrue. The reason that they say that, is simply because of the way Macs are programmed to run, primarily their MacPro units. Sure the iMacs are slightly better at it, like you mentioned the 2-6% difference, but when you do that on a MacPro, especially when you start clustering them, it's a whole different ball game.

On all of these notes, the battle isn't between Windows and Mac, it's PC and Mac. Like I mentioned, you can run Windows on a Mac, and I know first hand how awesome it runs too. It actually feels lighter all around, and the way games run on it, it just feels lighter is the best way I can put it.


Since Macs use PC hardware, you're completely utterly wrong.

A Mac running Windows is a 'PC' and any performance difference you notice is imaginary. The hardware is PC hardware. When you buy a Mac, you're paying a premium for the OS and compatible hardware. That's it.

Also, Spartacus is right on several points. OSX is lighter on resources than Windows Vista and thus performance under OSX is improved.

However, in my opinion, the reason that Macs have this reputation dates back several generations (of Apples, not people) to a time when Apple used hardware that was actually better than PCs for sound and video manipulation. Although the hardware has changed, the perception .. particularly among Apple fans .. has not changed to match.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Try telling that to all the people I know who use both Windows-based PC's and Macs, additionally those who use Windows on Macs. I've seen the performance difference myself, and I have no need to prove it to you, so I won't. However, it is there and is noticeable. Take note, also, that the performance difference is more noticeable on MacBooks than iMacs. There isn't enough to really merit as huge of a price difference as there is, even being a Mac lover I'm not an idiot, lol, but for some people it's justifiable, especially if they want both, but can't afford to have both separate. Btw, I've always been one of those rare people who say that a Mac IS a PC, seeing as how PC stands for Personal Computer.

Also, the only "more affordable" video-editing app that they have, is also the Mac-only one that comes pre-installed: iMovie. That's it. Otherwise, we're looking at the same price points. In fact, there are actually a lot of video editing apps that run in Windows and Linux that are way less costly and are not made for Mac OSX.

I'm not wrong on any account, and as such, as I've stated before, your points are invalid to me and carry no merit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:51 pm 
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The fact is that the hardware is identical. Your opinion is based on speculation and optimistic imagination.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
Your opinion is based on speculation and optimistic imagination.


Your opinion is invalid to me, and that's all it is, your opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:27 pm 
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
Your opinion is based on speculation and optimistic imagination.


Your opinion is invalid to me, and that's all it is, your opinion.


I know. You've mentioned that many times. Nobody cares. You've made your point ... now leave the personal bickering in the Break Room.

I am not stating an opinion in this thread. I am stating fact ... the hardware that Apple uses to make their computers is standard PC hardware. As such, it performs exactly the same as ... standard PC hardware.

That is my point and I'm not going to keep repeating it. We've each made our points. Move on.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
now leave the personal bickering in the Break room.


Why don't we just keep it out of all threads, and if we have problems with one another, we do it via pm? Same with all others in here, like Spider Monkey, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Old but still funny!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:30 pm 
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For goodness sakes' man! I don't know how much fact we have to present you with until you actually consider that you may be wrong. There is nothing apple does to their hardware nowadays to make it encode video or images any faster then a PC. The ONLY difference between a Mac's hardware and a PC's hardware is that the motherboards use EFI instead of a BIOS. And before you start spewing more BS about that, EFI does NOT improve performance in any way besides reducing POST time. In fact, most Intel boards use EFI-based booting, so that has no bearing on anything. A Core 2 Duo Mac is an entirely stock Core 2 Duo E7600 on entirely stock Qimonda DDR2-667 running in dual-channel configuration with an entirely stock 7200RPM 500GB HDD, and a custom-designed P45 motherboard. You can build a PC with identical hardware specs to ANY Intel-based Mac. Anyone who thinks Macs encode video or handle images faster then a PC of similar cost is just wrong. There's no middle ground in this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Steve Jobs personally blesses each piece of hardware before they put them together.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:55 pm 
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I called it early on regarding the whole battle issue, didn't I Chumly? Yes, yes I did. Why is that? Because some people just have to bash and trash, they gotta be haters and they can't figure out how to keep it to themselves, where it belongs. I would say this thread needs to be locked. The OP has had his question(s) answered and now it's getting bad. Please, somebody step in and do something before it gets way too out of hand.


Last edited by PM_DMNKLR on Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Guy, calm down.. it's just bunch of dudes talking about computers on the internet. Keep things in perspective. Lighten up.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:11 pm 
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This issue has been taken to PM. If it continues in this thread, I'll split out the posts so that the discussion can continue amiably as it had been.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Sounds good. That said, I've adjusted my earlier position. Macs that game well can be had, as a 27" Mac can be bought with an i5-750 and a Radeon HD 4850. However, your average, mainstream Mac games, but poorly with the GeForce 9400M they use. And even with the 4850-equipped Mac, A PC can be had for the same price that games much better. But Macs can game, if you install Windows on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows vs Apple
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Knightmare65 wrote:
I want to know if Apple makes any good computers for gaming? I want to know if any of you are playing games like Left 4 Dead or Modern Warfare 2, or even Crysis using an Apple computer, even on Steam. My uncle and I had a semi heated discussion about this. He tells me that Apple can play the latest games, but I keep reading in Max PC mag that Apple pretty much sucks when it comes to gaming. I explained to him that I like building my own systems which Apple doesn't allow anyone to do, not to my knowledge anyway. I know Apple is great for web browsing and work related chores, but as for gaming, I think they suck. What is the truth? My sons need a new computer, but they play most of their games on childish consoles. If Apple is taking more of the market share and making good gaming computers, then Microsoft better wake their asses up and make simple stable registry free operating systems or else they are history.


As for your main concern, the best bet is honestly to go with a PC that you want to build, if being for your kids. Whilst Apple does produce machines that have the potential to game, they're primarily too expensive for such a focused area. Also, whilst there are a LOT of games (obviously) on Steam, it is not available to Linux or Mac OSX users yet. Steam's a bit irritating sometimes though (if you ask me), because whilst they may have games on there that you have purchased a physical copy of, most of the time it will not activate your game key, unless it's from Valve or one of it's main affiliates.

A prime example of this, is when I recently finished building my new-ish PC, which I put together for both working in Adobe CS4 suite and for gaming when I have the downtime. I tried to activate nearly 15 games that I have, that are available in the Steam Store, but it refused to accept the codes, and therefore I had to install them outside of Steam. We're talking games such as GRAW, MoH: Airborne, WH40K: DoW 1+expansions, etc. All are available via the Steam store now, but it won't activate their codes and install through Steam, yet my Unreal Tournament 3 did just fine when I tried it.

Point blank: yes they do, but it's not really worth the extra premium you have to throw in, and for a few reasons that make complete sense. Primarily the lack of gaming content available, and the premium price altogether. I hope that answers your question(s) bro.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Yeah .. an i5 750 / 4850 would game almost as well as my PC (i5 750 / 5770).

So, let's compare. With my H50, my PC cost me about $900 ... probably less now since it has been a couple of months since I built it. The H50 allows me to OC to 4.2GHz.

The iMac has a better (ok, much better) LCD but can't be overclocked or easily upgraded. It also fails in the GPU department. RAM is the same (4GB each) and so is HDD space (1TB). The price? The 27" iMac, the only one with the 4850 option, is $1,999. At least double the price of my much faster, better gaming PC. I could easily upgrade my LCD for a fraction of that cost.

So .. yes, Macs can game .. but not nearly as well as a PC and only if you're willing to spend a LOT of money.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Yeah, one of the major convenience factors of getting an iMac, for example, is the fact that they're all-inclusive. For those who wish to save a lot of space, this could be appealing. For most people, it's not really a concern. However, for those who want or need that, at least there are some options, but again, you're paying the premium for the convenience factor of it all. I know I wouldn't use an HP TouchSmart PC (as nice and useful as they are) for gaming like that, lol, so at least there's an option there.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:21 pm 
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If the subject is video/photo editing, then doesn't Windows win that round as well? As far as I know, Apple has yet to implement GPU encoding unless otherwise stated. It just does everything faster.

If you want the dl on MACs listens to Gordons rant about it. :wink: (Quote: "The take the f*cking battery out technology!" :lol:)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Airheadq wrote:
If the subject is video/photo editing, then doesn't Windows win that round as well? As far as I know, Apple has yet to implement GPU encoding unless otherwise stated. It just does everything faster.


Actually, that's app-specific, not OS-specific, so in this case, it's equal. Primarily if you're referring to such apps as Adobe CS4 suite, wherein Adobe has designed it to have GPU-based acceleration (thankfully, lol), but again, it's to do with the specific apps, since this also applies to the version designed for OSX.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:35 am 
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Airheadq wrote:
If the subject is video/photo editing, then doesn't Windows win that round as well? As far as I know, Apple has yet to implement GPU encoding unless otherwise stated. It just does everything faster.


Actually, that's app-specific, not OS-specific, so in this case, it's equal. Primarily if you're referring to such apps as Adobe CS4 suite, wherein Adobe has designed it to have GPU-based acceleration (thankfully, lol), but again, it's to do with the specific apps, since this also applies to the version designed for OSX.


I generalized too much. Still it remains to be seen when GPU acceleration would be taken advantaged of. Honestly, I feel Macs are always held back technology-wise.

This was a general question. Again, I've had limited experience with Macs, and research came up with less than desired results.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:02 pm 
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I agree, it sure would be hella nice to finally have an OS that's enhanced by GPU acceleration. Sure, Aero is smooth as butta with my 8800's, but it'd be nice to see the whole OS being more enhanced, almost in a 3D environment. As for other video editing apps, I haven't been made aware of any that have moved on to GPUA, aside from Roxio's Creative Suite. I can tell you from experience, it really, really helps, a lot. It's very nice to have a movie rendered completely by the GPU, rather than the CPU, it's a noticeable difference.


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