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 Post subject: Windows vs Apple
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:57 pm 
Klamath
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I want to know if Apple makes any good computers for gaming? I want to know if any of you are playing games like Left 4 Dead or Modern Warfare 2, or even Crysis using an Apple computer, even on Steam. My uncle and I had a semi heated discussion about this. He tells me that Apple can play the latest games, but I keep reading in Max PC mag that Apple pretty much sucks when it comes to gaming. I explained to him that I like building my own systems which Apple doesn't allow anyone to do, not to my knowledge anyway. I know Apple is great for web browsing and work related chores, but as for gaming, I think they suck. What is the truth? My sons need a new computer, but they play most of their games on childish consoles. If Apple is taking more of the market share and making good gaming computers, then Microsoft better wake their asses up and make simple stable registry free operating systems or else they are history.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows vs Apple
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Knightmare65 wrote:
I want to know if Apple makes any good computers for gaming? I want to know if any of you are playing games like Left 4 Dead or Modern Warfare 2, or even Crysis using an Apple computer, even on Steam. My uncle and I had a semi heated discussion about this. He tells me that Apple can play the latest games, but I keep reading in Max PC mag that Apple pretty much sucks when it comes to gaming. I explained to him that I like building my own systems which Apple doesn't allow anyone to do, not to my knowledge anyway. I know Apple is great for web browsing and work related chores, but as for gaming, I think they suck. What is the truth? My sons need a new computer, but they play most of their games on childish consoles. If Apple is taking more of the market share and making good gaming computers, then Microsoft better wake their asses up and make simple stable registry free operating systems or else they are history.


Sounds like this post is one raging fire.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:10 pm 
Million Club [PC]
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erm... only Mac Pros have any GPU horsepower at all. You can put a 4870 1GB in a mac Pro or 1, 2, or 3, GTX 285s, or a GTS 250.
As for Macs that real people buy... AFAIK the most powerful GPUs they house are GeForce 9400Ms... pretty craptastic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:11 am 
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If Apple is taking more of the market share and making good gaming computers, then Microsoft better wake their asses up and make simple stable registry free operating systems or else they are history.


What the hell are you talking about?? Maybe Apple will touch the 10% market share - maybe. Earth is a Window's world.

As far as gaming goes, the hardware isn't anything special on a Mac. You can play Windows on Mac hardware via Bootcamp. But, you might as well have a serious rig (re: anything not built by Apple) if you are going to run a Win O/S for gaming.

There isn't anything that's a threat to Windows at this point in time. Granted, the techies will spew the wonders about Linux, but I am talking about the entire PC gamer field. Your WoW'er/Casual gamer wouldn't want to learn how to successfully install Linux and run his/her fav games on it. They would just rather buy a new laptop. And, yes - I do mean laptop. The masses are buying more laptops than rigs.

And, with services like Steam being your one stop PC gaming shop, Mac doesn't have much of a chance on playing 3 decades worth of classic titles. Even future PC titles aren't being commonly ported over to the Mac. There is Portal 2,... and,... uhm, some Blizzard games - I think.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:23 am 
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If you like building your own computers, why even bother asking this question?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Actually, the iMacs now ship with options all the way up to a Radeon HD 4850 with 512MB dedicated VRAM, a core i7 2.85Ghz, and 16GB of 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM. The options are there, and when you really consider that Windows now runs on a Mac, via Boot Camp, it's a non-issue any more. I vote that this thread please be locked, or removed, as to eliminate the possibility of a fire needing put out. This debate has been battled out for a long, long time now and never ends well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:53 pm 
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Actually, the iMacs now ship with options all the way up to a Radeon HD 4850 with 512MB dedicated VRAM, a core i7 2.85Ghz, and 16GB of 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM. The options are there, and when you really consider that Windows now runs on a Mac, via Boot Camp, it's a non-issue any more. I vote that this thread please be locked, or removed, as to eliminate the possibility of a fire needing put out. This debate has been battled out for a long, long time now and never ends well.

no need to lock it, unless people trash the thread, it can be a worthwhile thread.
That said, as far as I know (and I'm pretty damn sure of this) only Mac Pros can have anything faster than a GeForce 9400M or an i7. The other iMacs just have the discrete version of the 9400M and a Core 2 Duo topping out at 3.06Ghz (the E7600). And Mac Pros, which can have an i7, 4850 or 4870 1GB, or GTX 285's, aren't financially viable for 99% of people.
If there are normal iMacs that can run a 4850 and an i7, I'd be nice if you could link to one, because I can't for the life of me find anything like that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:28 pm 
Klamath
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I did not start this thread to have an all out drag down fight amongst Mac and Windows supporters. I am just thirsting for knowledge, and like to have answers when my uncle (and or cousin) have this discussion with me.
He claims when there was Windows in the house computers, there was yelling and screaming and total chaos. When my cousin bought a Mac, and everyone in the house saw this, they converted, and peace was restored in the house.
That being said, I have read and learned that Macs are good for non gaming tasks, not much else. I have been doing some research and have learned that Macs are slowly getting better graphics and CPU's, thanks to Intel, not Mac. I attempted to convey to him that I love building and upgrading my own systems, I take pride in that, its an accomplishment to me, which makes me a non Mac user. I can get around a lot of the problems Windows has, but others can not, which a Mac may be ideal for them. I do not want this thread to get shut down, I would like to read what others think about the topic I have started.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:45 pm 
Java Junkie
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PM_DMNKLR wrote:
Actually, the iMacs now ship with options all the way up to a Radeon HD 4850 with 512MB dedicated VRAM, a core i7 2.85Ghz, and 16GB of 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM.


A 4850 is a last-gen video card ... not exactly cutting edge .. but it will game decently unless you cripple it with a pathetic half gig of RAM.

Quote:
The options are there, and when you really consider that Windows now runs on a Mac, via Boot Camp, it's a non-issue any more. I vote that this thread please be locked, or removed, as to eliminate the possibility of a fire needing put out. This debate has been battled out for a long, long time now and never ends well.


I'll lock this thread (or another mod will) if it turns into a flame war.

"Do Macs game" is a legitimate question. My answer is "Yes .. but not as well as a PC"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
A 4850 is a last-gen video card ... not exactly cutting edge .. but it will game decently unless you cripple it with a pathetic half gig of RAM.

That kinda makes me raise my eyebrows, Jip. It's a fairly well-known fact that doubling up the RAM on a 4850 does almost nothing for its performance, except in CrossFire when effective RAM doesn't grow with additional cards. Now, a 4870, with twice the memory bandwidth, greatly benefits from moving up to 1GB of VRAM, because the GPU and memory is fast enough to easily fill up 512MB and more with texture and AA/AF data. A 4850, on the other hand, isn't.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:40 pm 
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I stand corrected. I admit, I based my statement based solely on the fact that half a gig of RAM on a video card seems weak .. my bad. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Spartacus wrote:
That said, as far as I know (and I'm pretty damn sure of this) only Mac Pros can have anything faster than a GeForce 9400M or an i7. The other iMacs just have the discrete version of the 9400M and a Core 2 Duo topping out at 3.06Ghz (the E7600). And Mac Pros, which can have an i7, 4850 or 4870 1GB, or GTX 285's, aren't financially viable for 99% of people.
If there are normal iMacs that can run a 4850 and an i7, I'd be nice if you could link to one, because I can't for the life of me find anything like that.


LINK

Click the link. You can select your iMac, the highest one already having a 4850 setup in it, if you click the "select" button, you get this, which allows you the option to upgrade it's Core i5 2.66Ghgz to the Core i7 2.8Ghz model (my bad on the 2.85, it's just 2.8Ghz.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Wow. That's very awesome... Not worth 2K by any means, but very awesome that they fit an i7 and a 4850 in that little sliver. The fact that its a Mac and has all the Mac limitations and OS X also makes it not worth it, for me...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Spartacus wrote:
Wow. That's very awesome... Not worth 2K by any means, but very awesome that they fit an i7 and a 4850 in that little sliver. The fact that its a Mac and has all the Mac limitations and OS X also makes it not worth it, for me...

Not worth it for a lot of people, just proving that the options are there is all. If ya have access to the internet, don't be afraid to go to Apple's website, lol, it won't curse you or anything. I go there once in a blue moon to see if there's anything worth checking out, and usually there is.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:29 pm 
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If your getting a computer for your sons for gaming, then yeah get them a PC. You can make the best-bang-for the buck machine and will save you a few bucks so that they can get more games.

And if it comes down to it, you could always build a hackitosh.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:17 pm 
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for Gaming = PC
for video-editing = mac ( I guess, although PC also have tons of freewares, sharewares, softwares)

I wonder if there are freeware / sharewars for mac ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:23 am 
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Guys, it's not about the hardware. They share hardware that most average gaming PC holds. They cost a good 33% more, but it's the same hardware.

It's about the OS, and not many games are able to be played on Mac OS's. You'll have to emulate them if they're not MacAble, and may steal a bit of the resources, but still playable.

PC's are nice, because you can build them at home, and cut the costs down based on what you want it to do. $500 goes a long ways with PC's.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:22 am 
Million Club [PC]
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logicmaster2003 wrote:
for Gaming = PC
for video-editing = mac ( I guess, although PC also have tons of freewares, sharewares, softwares)

Why? That misconception has taken the video and photo industry by storm. The thought that Macs are better for photo and video editing is downright false, no matter how you cut it. A lot of people have run tests on Macs- I've seen one with the older 22" Macs with an E7200, 2GB of DDR2-667, and a GeForce 9400M. They ran it against a PC with the same specs and Windows Vista, and the Mac generally outperformed the PC by 2-6% (because OS X is lighter on resources then Vista). So why do so many people say Macs are better for video editing?
Simple answer: there's a lot more affordable video editing apps for Macs then for PC's. So video editors start on Macs and by the time they move into the professional range, they are already sworn Mac users.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:41 pm 
Willamette
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Spartacus wrote:
logicmaster2003 wrote:
for Gaming = PC
for video-editing = mac ( I guess, although PC also have tons of freewares, sharewares, softwares)

Why? That misconception has taken the video and photo industry by storm. The thought that Macs are better for photo and video editing is downright false, no matter how you cut it. A lot of people have run tests on Macs- I've seen one with the older 22" Macs with an E7200, 2GB of DDR2-667, and a GeForce 9400M. They ran it against a PC with the same specs and Windows Vista, and the Mac generally outperformed the PC by 2-6% (because OS X is lighter on resources then Vista). So why do so many people say Macs are better for video editing?
Simple answer: there's a lot more affordable video editing apps for Macs then for PC's. So video editors start on Macs and by the time they move into the professional range, they are already sworn Mac users.


Actually, this is pretty well untrue. The reason that they say that, is simply because of the way Macs are programmed to run, primarily their MacPro units. Sure the iMacs are slightly better at it, like you mentioned the 2-6% difference, but when you do that on a MacPro, especially when you start clustering them, it's a whole different ball game.

On all of these notes, the battle isn't between Windows and Mac, it's PC and Mac. Like I mentioned, you can run Windows on a Mac, and I know first hand how awesome it runs too. It actually feels lighter all around, and the way games run on it, it just feels lighter is the best way I can put it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:43 pm 
Java Junkie
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logicmaster2003 wrote:
I wonder if there are freeware / sharewars for mac ?


Given that OSX is based on a 'nix core .. yeah .. there are both freeware and shareware available. ;)


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