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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:37 am 
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SuperKaramba is also less of a resource-pig than some gDesklets can be ... probably because gD are coded in python and SK in C.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:47 am 
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Jipstyle wrote:
SuperKaramba is also less of a resource-pig than some gDesklets can be ... probably because gD are coded in python and SK in C.


Probably, Python can be a total resource hog, in fact, a friend of mine wrote a small daemon that would write resolved hostnames to your host file, the entire app took him two hours to write but took up close to 8MB of RAM. It never occured to me that Python took up that much RAM.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:19 am 
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gDesklets are not that bad with Gentoo ..... P4 Optimized


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:53 am 
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Jawa78 wrote:
gDesklets are not that bad with Gentoo ..... P4 Optimized



Yeah, but I really like KDE :P


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:08 am 
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well when i have hours to spend letting portage compile kde i will use kde.... i usually use kde on slackware lately


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:58 am 
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Jawa78 wrote:
well when i have hours to spend letting portage compile kde i will use kde.... i usually use kde on slackware lately


I exclusively use KDE. I liked GNOME, but for some reason, I thought it took up too much resources than KDE did. Plus, I like Qt over GTK, so that's another reason why I use KDE.

I use Gentoo and KDE with X.org, when I made the tansition from Xfree to X.org, my system felt more responsive (in a subjective sense).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:33 pm 
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Jawa78 wrote:
gDesklets are not that bad with Gentoo ..... P4 Optimized


That's how I ran 'em ... though optimised for an Athy. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:21 am 
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jawa wrote:
Because it is awful just like debian.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...


Last edited by Gadget on Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:25 am 
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kkith wrote:
BUT, from these configurations, a normal user should not see much difference between reiserfs and ext3 when referring to desktop usage. Most of your desktop state is in main memory, which keeps it speedy. In other words, its not your file system. I think something else is causing the sluggishness.

Well said. I was so hoping not to have to write that. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:28 am 
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WillSmith wrote:
I just looked at the running processes and it says that X is using 806MB of memory. That seems a bit high, but I don't know if it reserves a bunch of the swapfile or something goofy...

That seems like a hell of a lot of memory to me. I'll have to check a linux box at school tomororw and compare.

I was going to suggest nicing X to a negative value, which might help a bit.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:48 am 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
XFS is a great Filesystem if you're willing to risk it. Why? Because XFS aggresively uses RAM as a temp buffer (IIRC) so while it is fast, a sudden power failure can cause the system to go corrupt.

You should have stopped after the fifth word. Come on now - we've done this dance before. XFS is a great filesystem AND, if anything, is more robust than either ext3 or ResierFS. It has stood the test of time. Ditto for JFS.

DJSPIN80 wrote:
FYI, ReiserFS is better since it uses smaller cluster sizes (1K, IIRC) and is more robust than ext3.

Why is a smaller cluster size important? On some disks, I can set fat16 to use a smaller cluster size, but I doubt you would argue it is better, right? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:20 am 
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Jawa78 wrote:
Part of it is the fact that nix was not put around a gui. it not even a vital part of any *nix based os (with a few expections like BeOS) it the oposite of they took a text based os and trying to wrap it around this a virtual emulated tty , or atleast that is what i said about X.

Just because the folks at MIT had the good sense to not push X into a Unix kernel does not imply that nix is not suitable, or fast, with gui applications. Rewind the clock five years and Windows isn't even a consideration for most performance critical graphics appllcations. Trust me, these Unix workstations were designed with one thing in mind - pushing tons of pixels around. Even today, SGI and Sun still do some pretty good business in this area. Hell, look at what Apple is doing with OS X.

The Linux drivers in this case are probably a bit crappy compared to their windows counterparts. Nuff said.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:43 am 
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Gadget wrote:
You should have stopped after the fifth word. Come on now - we've done this dance before. XFS is a great filesystem AND, if anything, is more robust than either ext3 or ResierFS. It has stood the test of time. Ditto for JFS.


Even the Gentoo docs warn you about XFS (AFAIR). I've used XFS a many times, I'm using it right now on my two data drives on my server. I found it to be more robust than Reiser or ext3. I've never used JFS, I'll look into that more, but I'm not having any problems with Reiser and XFS (I'm running a combo of the two).

Gadget wrote:
Why is a smaller cluster size important? On some disks, I can set fat16 to use a smaller cluster size, but I doubt you would argue it is better, right? :)


Fat16 also didn't have journaling, it didn't have support for larger drives and it was pretty slow, IIRC. Fat16 actually used larger cluster sizes, Fat32 got it down to I think 8K chunks, IIRC. Fat32 also supported larger drive sizes. ReiserFS uses 1K chunks, your drive is more efficient in terms of writing, but it does come with a cost. Also, ReiserFS is perfect (from what I've read) for serving small files (less than 4KB sizes). I'm not slamming on ReiserFS either, since I am using it on the root drives on both my server and my laptop.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:27 am 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Fat16 also didn't have journaling, it didn't have support for larger drives and it was pretty slow, IIRC.

It wasn't all that slow actually, but it did waste ram, exhibit the dependability of a crack-whore, and otherwise just suck.

The cluster size is just a simple trade off. There is no magic here. With a smaller cluster, you have less wasted disk space. A larger cluster wastes some space, but you don't need as many inodes (or as large a table, etc) to keep track of the files so there is less overhead. It is just a case of choosing the right cluster size (or FS for that matter) for the job, eg. Tivo uses a 1 or 2 MB block size, which makes a lot of sense given the data.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 am 
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Gadget wrote:
The cluster size is just a simple trade off. There is no magic here. With a smaller cluster, you have less wasted disk space. A larger cluster wastes some space, but you don't need as many inodes (or as large a table, etc) to keep track of the files so there is less overhead. It is just a case of choosing the right cluster size (or FS for that matter) for the job, eg. Tivo uses a 1 or 2 MB block size, which makes a lot of sense given the data.



Hence, why my filesystems differ per partition. I use XFS on my storage drives whereas my root drive use ReiserFS. Obviously, Tivo has to use 1 or 2MB blocks, considering that video data is in the GB's, using ReiserFS will not make sense. ;)

OTOH, I'm looking into JFS as we speak, it's interesting, but like XFS it's overkill for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:00 am 
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As an update for the slow desktop - I turned off Xinerama and enabled nVidia's proprietary Xinerama extensions (twinview). That sped my GUI up considerably.

It's still not as fast as the Gentoo system at home, but that machine has a lot faster hardware too.

This leads me to believe that the problem lies not with the nVidia driver, or even my version of X, but Xinerama... I'll try disabling Xinerama next, and see if it's faster with three seperate X servers.

///Will


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:53 pm 
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WillSmith wrote:
I'll try disabling Xinerama next, and see if it's faster with three seperate X servers.

Interesting idea.... should make for three interesting xconfig files. How do you handle mouse input when running multiple X servers?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:06 pm 
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It's actually really odd, it pops right across the three desktops, just like it would in a Xinerama config. The only difference is that you get three 'standalone' windows and you can't drag stuff from monitor to monitor. I still only use the same config as the tri-monitor xinerama mode, I just comment out Xinerama.

The problem with a Xinerama-less config is that stuff that doesn't like opening multiple instances (Firefox, Thunderbird, lots of Gnome panel stuff) only works on one display.

The 2 monitor nVidia TwinView mode was pretty fast, but not fast enough to warrant the pain of a mere two monitors.

Turning off Xinerama was a little faster, but the display attached to the PCI card was still noticeably slow.

What I'm trying now is the non-3D accelerated Open Source nvidia driver (nv) on the PCI card monitor with Xinerama back on. That has sped things up considerably, and since I never use 3D on the PCI card's display, it's a pretty good solution.

I think I'll try using the nv driver on the second display connected to the 5950 next, and see how that goes.

The machine at home feels much faster than this one, even with just two displays. I'm thinking its a combination of xorg and using reiserfs instead of ext3.

///Will


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:22 pm 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Jawa78 wrote:
well when i have hours to spend letting portage compile kde i will use kde.... i usually use kde on slackware lately


I exclusively use KDE. I liked GNOME, but for some reason, I thought it took up too much resources than KDE did. Plus, I like Qt over GTK, so that's another reason why I use KDE.

I use Gentoo and KDE with X.org, when I made the tansition from Xfree to X.org, my system felt more responsive (in a subjective sense).


I think so too, but for some reason (crappy soundcard?) artsd eats waaay to much memory and CPU to even be worth my time in KDE. I have to logout and use GNOME when I want to listen to oggs. Not fun. I even tried static linking, but it doesn't make too much of a difference (I used to use Noatun, but it's present on all KDE players I've tried).

About ext3... doesn't the performance difference between ext3 and Reiser fs only start to manifest itself at prohibitively large file sizes (300Mb+)? Or am I confusing that[them] with another FS[/s]?

Will, Nvidia's linux drivers eat crap compared to their windows counterparts; that said, it is nice that they even provide drivers to the linux community (ATI's drivers seem to suck even more, though that's based on an old old system with a crappy crappy videocard.).

The solution is:
[ Insert considerable driver tweakage here ].

Probably the best solution is to cut the GUI down to a minimum, lightwieght WM, as others have suggested.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:57 pm 
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Heh, I was actually getting ready to post an update when I saw you'd dug this thread back up.

I discovered part of my problem. At some point when I used apt-get to update X, it also reran the x configuration script, which then decided to put a second mouse entry into the XF86Config-4 file for the same hardware. This made mouse clicking very laggy and weird. Tweaking the mouse section of the config file made this a little better, but then I replaced the Intellimouse Explorer 4 with a MX510 and that made things much better. I'm not sure why.

It's still slow though. I think that that's Xinerama's fault. When I disable it, it's fast. When I leave Xinerama enabled, it's slow.

Oddly, this only happens on the Debian box that uses XFree86. My Gentoo box at home is much faster, even with dual displays enabled.

Using a stripped down window manager made no difference as long as Xinerama was enabled.


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