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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:39 pm 
8086
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Jawa78 wrote:
Debian well it hard to stay there standard install covers alot of things. But again i also had to apt-get alot of things. and Debian repositories are too big to do a full isntall of everything.


The debian repository includes gigs and gigs of software... there's NO WAY you should even thinking of installing EVERY package they have available.
You can simply use task select to get the appropriate packages and add on anything you feel you need individually.

The debian base install is quite small (under 100mb? I don't remember). That's certainly worth having to install a few packages / tasks individually.

Jipstyle wrote:
Jawa78 wrote:
Most Unix like of all Linuxes
You have yet to explain that statement.


He's probably referring to the System V init scripts instead of init.d etc... Other than that, i'm not sure there are many significant differences.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:11 am 
iron colbinator
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Guys, I split the Slackware discussion into a new thread. Please feel free to post your thoughts on Slackware being "UNIX-like" there, but let's keep this one on topic (best choice for dual boot Athlon 64).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:04 am 
Java Junkie
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Thanks for the split, colby. :)

Back to the A64 ... Gentoo recently released a new version ... 2004.2 which supports the A64!

Now, we've already mentioned that Gentoo is not the most suitable distro for a complete beginner, but it is possible to install Gentoo and work with it as a complete n00b (I did it! Barely. :P ) ... it just requires dedication and a lot of reading. Since the A64 is being very well supported, this is an option to consider.

If you do decide to take this route, there are some important notes to be aware of before you start your installation. If you don't understand these notes, feel free to ask.

Finally, you can read the Project Information Notes here and more detailed installation instructions over here.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:45 pm 
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Jipstyle wrote:
Thanks for the split, colby. :)

Back to the A64 ... Gentoo recently released a new version ... 2004.2 which supports the A64!

Now, we've already mentioned that Gentoo is not the most suitable distro for a complete beginner, but it is possible to install Gentoo and work with it as a complete n00b (I did it! Barely. :P ) ... it just requires dedication and a lot of reading. Since the A64 is being very well supported, this is an option to consider.

If you do decide to take this route, there are some important notes to be aware of before you start your installation. If you don't understand these notes, feel free to ask.

Finally, you can read the Project Information Notes here and more detailed installation instructions over here.


But since there is is a64 support vida linux will step in eventually and make there installer work on the a64 version and then he she who ever can enjoy gentoo on there machine with out the hassle of gentoo.

Gentoo is nice never said it wasnt.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:50 pm 
Java Junkie
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Jawa78 wrote:
But since there is is a64 support vida linux will step in eventually and make there installer work on the a64 version and then he she who ever can enjoy gentoo on there machine with out the hassle of gentoo.

Gentoo is nice never said it wasnt.


That is true ... I haven't played with these distros, but I've heard good things about them.

The reasons I gave so much info about installing A64-based Gentoo are:
(i) he is asking for A64 support, and this is all that Gentoo has right now,
(ii) someone else browsing for this kind of help might find the information useful.

When Vida releases a disk with A64 support, I'll try to remember to add a link to this thread ... if you see it before I do, please mention it here (or somewhere else it might be useful).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:22 am 
Forum's 3dfx Zealot
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Only thing i dont like vidalinux was the fact it it autoload gdesklets starterbar which can be slow even on the fastest p4 machine


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:17 am 
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Jawa78 wrote:
Only thing i dont like vidalinux was the fact it it autoload gdesklets starterbar which can be slow even on the fastest p4 machine


Ugh ... I used gdesklets (and loved 'em), but it really needs a lot of RAM. I've run them on a 1.2 TBird with a gig of RAM, and it worked fine ... and I've run them on a 2.4 P4 with 256 MB (don't ask .. not my machine. :P ) and it brought the desktop to a crawl.

Anyway .. you're right .. that is a silly thing to include in the default install.

Funny thing, though ... when I first started using gdesklets (last spring / summer), I had a hell of a time getting them to work on my system. They were still in the 'testing' phase, and required me to create a custom ebuild.

I haven't used 'em in a while, but I'm guessing that if it is part of the default install on vida, they much have done a lot of work on them! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:59 am 
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it not so much Gdesklets as it is the starterbar applet. I use gdesklets on slack just not that starterbar which kinda looks like the osx dock.

Other than that I found that gdesklets work quite well. Just i have always been plauged with problems with that starterbar applet.

other than dumb applet I like a number of things. Liked porthole I might have to install vida or gentoo on one of my machines some day instead of inside virtual pc for windows


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:09 pm 
Coppermine
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Jipstyle wrote:
:D

Now, we wait for our resident Slack troll to appear and scream "Slack 0wns A|| of j00s!"

:roll:

:lol:


Slackware does own...newb.

Actually. I think distros are like cigarettes, you generally stick with what you first learn. I started learning Linux on Slackware, however, where I work, the sysadmin has chosen debian. I don't mind. I just install slackware when I need to get some serious programming done. :mrgreen:. Just kidding, there is no difference really. I use both on a regular basis everyday 8 hours or more a day.

Acutally, I don't think debian is a bad distro. I put it at least on the same tier as slackware and gentoo. (Redhat, mandrake, suse...psshh...newbs....go find a gui -or- talk to me when you are proficient in CLI bash/csh/tcsh/korn/zsh/ash/etc)

Shameless plug:

I work at the metaverse lab at the center for visualization and virtual environments. http://www.vis.uky.edu/
Under the metaverse grant... http://www.metaverselab.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Linux dual boot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:19 pm 
Coppermine
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the butter on the muffin wrote:
Hi there, I just purchased a new computer (Athlon 64 3000+, Soltek nForce3 250 based mobo, MSI Radeon 9800 Pro 128) for school, and part of the curriculum deals with Linux and Unix. I have contemplated putting Linux on my machine for a while, but was bewildered by the different options. I have no experience currently with the OS, but I will get more skilled when my programming skills increase, so getting a distribution aimed at total newbies will be too confining after a while.

Which Linux versions would work best with the hardware I have, and also have a gentle learning curve, but not crippled in terms of performance?


Well, depending on your curriculum (I am assuming it is CS), I would choose Slackware as it comes stock with a bunch of development libraries and headers included. Debian MIGHT or might not...

As a personal opinion, learn to use:
./configure
make
make install

before you get spoiled with apt-get or anything like that.

Compiling from the source is always the base line when compared to all these prebuilt package distros.

I've installed both Debian (testing/unstable) as well as slackware (8.x-10.x), I have found slackware to be the easiest to install and use (the isos come with X, xfce,kde,gnome,fluxbox,fvwm,blackbox,and some more i cant think of right now.

At work I've installed debian (various flavors) using net install (tiny base iso). It takes quite a bit more time to install a debian system than a slack system.

I feel slack has an easier learning curve, provides a good baseline to learn Linux overall, and have always been stable for in my experiences.

Once you know what you are doing and have compiled from source enough times to feel comfortable. Then you might want to check out debian.


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 Post subject: Re: Linux dual boot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:13 pm 
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kkith wrote:
At work I've installed debian (various flavors) using net install (tiny base iso). It takes quite a bit more time to install a debian system than a slack system.


Since we use debian at work we created a local mirror. If you account for time spent downloading would it really take longer than the ISO's you pre-downloaded?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:18 pm 
Little Foot
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Thanks a bunch guys. :) I'm still amazed at the depth and usefulness of information I've been given. Kudos.

As for a few questions regarding AMD64 Gentoo:
- "kernel 2.4.x is officially deprecated in Gentoo/AMD64" :? What does this mean?
- As to more practical matters, what's the easiest way, in your opinion, to obtain and install Linux (Gentoo specifically, if possible).

To answer other earlier questions, I'm attending a course called the Applied Degree Program - Bachelor of Software Development. It's a cooperation between Seneca College and York University, meaning it's has university level courses, but presented in a college fashion.

I've just wrestled with hooking the damn thing up, and I'm still stuck at the disk formatting stage of installing Windows. I found my SATA connector to be loose, so hopefully that's the only thing wrong. Linux will come after I gain Internet access, update all necessary drivers and updates, and get everything running smoothly. I'll keep y'all posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:40 pm 
Java Junkie
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the butter on the muffin wrote:
Thanks a bunch guys. :) I'm still amazed at the depth and usefulness of information I've been given. Kudos.


We aim to please. :)

the butter on the muffin wrote:
As for a few questions regarding AMD64 Gentoo:
- "kernel 2.4.x is officially deprecated in Gentoo/AMD64" :? What does this mean?


That means that the 2.4 series of kernels is no longer supported for AMD64 architectures in Gentoo ... they've moved over to 2.6.x ... largely because the kernel is FAR more 64-bit friendly. :) It is a *good* thing, IMO.

teh butter on the muffin wrote:
- As to more practical matters, what's the easiest way, in your opinion, to obtain and install Linux (Gentoo specifically, if possible).


Go to www.gentoo.org and read the installation guide here. If that seems relatively straight-forward to you, read the additional comments I provided earlier in the thread that are directly related to installing Gentoo on an AMD64 platform. If you still feel confident, download and burn the appropriate ISO and go for it!

If you don't, and it is quite possible that this will seem daunting, or even incomprehensible, then you are probably better off with an easier distro to begin with. Slackware and / or Debian are probably your best bets in this case ... I'll leave it to Jawa and Colby to explain those for you, since I haven't used Slack in years and Debian is still relatively new to me.

the butter on the muffin wrote:
I've just wrestled with hooking the damn thing up, and I'm still stuck at the disk formatting stage of installing Windows. I found my SATA connector to be loose, so hopefully that's the only thing wrong. Linux will come after I gain Internet access, update all necessary drivers and updates, and get everything running smoothly. I'll keep y'all posted.


Good luck! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Linux dual boot?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:09 am 
Coppermine
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Karl the Pagan wrote:
kkith wrote:
At work I've installed debian (various flavors) using net install (tiny base iso). It takes quite a bit more time to install a debian system than a slack system.


Since we use debian at work we created a local mirror. If you account for time spent downloading would it really take longer than the ISO's you pre-downloaded?


That is a very good point. I'll suggest that to my sysadmin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:11 am 
Little Foot
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Hello again all. :) My grappling with Windows is now complete. It turns out that my hard drive was too big for older versions of Windows to recognize. I had to use a startup floppy. :x I'm now running XP Pro. :D

Something that I didn't bother to ask earlier, if I have 120 GB of disk space, installed with Win XP Pro, (most likely Gentoo) Linux, and then a shite-load of music files and other nonsense, what sizes should I make my partitions? I have a bundled version of Partition Magic to use.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:30 pm 
Little Foot
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Arggh. I went to install Gentoo from a LiveCD. After a huge hassle of repartitioning my hard drive, I went through the installation process. I couldn't get my Linux partition running, saying that I didn't have enough space (on a 40GB parition), so I couldn't mount anything. I tried to start Windows, but aparently some necessary files were lost. So I had to reinstall Windows, which proceeded to stall on me every time it was started. I got reinstalled again, which worked fine, then got SP2, which caused my system to get the Blue Screen of Death every time Windows loaded, even before the Welcome screen. I repaired that installation, which is now making the system work fine.

Although I admit I'm a newb, and probably fucked something up, this is still leaving a bad taste in my mouth over Linux.


Last edited by the butter on the muffin on Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:15 pm 
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the butter on the muffin wrote:
Although I admit I'm a newb, and probably fucked something up, this is still leaving a bad taste in my mouth over Linux.


It's very likely. I had the same problems myself and I've been working with computers for over 10 years. Unfortunately for me, I never got into linux until now. I'm still quite the newbie with it. :(

Stick with it, I'm sure you'll get it eventually.
If I may suggest, how bout trying another distro? My 2 favorites at the moment are Slackware and Debian.

Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:42 am 
Little Foot
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:lol: I think I found the problem. I forgot to defrag before partitioning, so the files were probably written over. Matt installs Gentoo, take 2, will ensue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:13 am 
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I personally have found fedora core 2 to de my favorite.
Once you get all the missing stuff installed its great.
I actually liked having to work to get all the stuff installed I wanted
as it made me learn very quickly how to load packages and configure
yum and apt-get


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:07 am 
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First: Jipstyle, your explanation on linux a page ago was beautiful, and I mean that in the most manly, heterosexual manner possible. Very nice, I loved it.

Second: I agree with KKith about learning about the joys of ./configure, make, make install. Being a day-to-day (L)user of Mandrake (one of the RedHat Package Manager-based distros), I know my way around RPM and where to find the things I need (rpmfind.net), but almost without exception, my most successful software installs come from downloading the source and installing it without rpm -ivh blahblahblah. The one exception I can think of is an install I did of WineX during its 2.x phase, when I couldn't configure the install properly, but the pre-package worked quickly and effortlessly. While apt-get, emerge, and urpmi (Mandrake's attempt at auto download/update, actually pretty easy to initially configure and use...) all have their uses, especiallly for new users, nothing beats having the software configured for your machine and reading the output so that you know where the pertinent files are...

However, I disagree about the use of the original distro we started with. My first exposure (lab I worked in at engineering school) to Linux was Slackware, back in 1997 or so. My first home install was a Caldera pos that was disaster resulting in a lost HD and a lost 2GB partition of pictures I had scanned.....I then used (in order ?); Peanut, Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake (when someone asked me to test a server setup with it), Debian, Knoppix and Gentoo. I got caught up in writing HowTos for Mandrake's site and testing for them, so I end up running it at home on my primary machine and I carry a Knoppix LiveCD with me just about everywhere (one in the car at all times). I think we all find something we're comfortable with and use that.

BTW, I find that the most frustrating software packages to install are not XFree or OpenOffice, but multimedia stuff....getting XMMS to play avi, mpg, etc. or getting mplayer installed are major pains, and getting DVD movie players/burners running seem to cause me no end of headaches. The good thing is, once I've figured it out, I write a nice little Step-by-Step or HowTo and publish it (plus keep a copy around for myself so that when Murphey comes around and I can't access the internet, I can repeat the process). All the different libraries and dependencies for those packages......yikes!

Third: I have a couple of suggestions for the OP. Go to linuxiso.org and look at the choices you can download there, the only two I saw for AMD64 are gentoo and FreeBSD. FreeBSD, Gentoo or Slackware would be your best choices with regards to Unix, although I've never really had problems with Unix because my Linux experiences have served me well. Finally, burn a Knoppix LiveCD and use linux on a per boot basis. You'll save yourself a ton of heartache and problems by avoiding what seems to be inevitable for all linux users, which is you have to go through the process of totally hosing your best computer and losing tons of valuable data before you get a usable system. Its a kind of trial-by-fire, where only those of the strongest mindset are determined enough to press on even after having suffered such great losses.....I also use Knoppix at work, since I don't have to worry about my job being pissed at me for repartitioning their HD and I can do just about anything I want on the live CD since most of the tools I use are included, and Knoppix is also great for system recovery (which you may be becoming very familiar with in the very near future)

If you want something that doesn't require a lot of up front knowledge/learning, but still provides the means to get a lot of linux experience, try Red Hat (not Fedora, but RH 9). Once you have the hang of things and know your way around, then you can start screwing up your system ;p


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