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 Post subject: RAID 10
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:55 pm 
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I would like to run 4 HDDs on a RAID 0 setup, but I would also like to mirror everything. Instead of having 8 drives (4 to run on and 4 to mirror) could I just use 4 x 250GB drives to get the speed of RAID 0 and then mirror on to a single 1TB drive using RAID 10?

I was also looking for a good (and free) HDD cloning program. I am looking at EASUS... an thoughts? I need something that will create a clone that I can boot from in order to set up the new RAID volume. Plus, if it turns out I cannot use RAID 10 in the for-mentioned manner then I will just use the software to manual mirror on to the 1TB drive.

AMD Phenom II x6 @ 3.2Ghz
Asus Crosshair IV Formula (is also my RAID controller)
8GB (4 x 2GB) G.Skill Ripsaw @ 1333Mhz
2 x 250GB WD SATA III HDDs @ 7200 RPM on RAID 0
Windows 7 Profesional (64-bit)


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:31 am 
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Uh... What are you trying to accomplish? This sounds like a horrible idea.

Why not just use RAID 5 can call it a day?


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:39 am 
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I am wondering if this is even possible because I would like the speed of 4 drives on RAID 0 with the mirroring of RAID1 without needing 8 drives. I was also looking into RAID 5 but I would be much more comfortable with a 5th drive with everything on it that I can jump to when I need to change my RAID configuration. In short I want 2 HDDs; 1) The first to be 4 x 250GB HDDs tied together on a RAID 0 configuration, 2) and the second too be a 1TB HDD that is an exact copy of the Logical Drive. Anyone know of a concise way of doing that? I understand it all sounds very convoluted, that is why I am posting on forums for advice on how to do this, or a better way of doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Here is Raid explained:

http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/08/rai ... -tutorial/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuwjadbtUCY

Nasty


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:20 pm 
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pinson101 wrote:
I am wondering if this is even possible because I would like the speed of 4 drives on RAID 0 with the mirroring of RAID1 without needing 8 drives. I was also looking into RAID 5 but I would be much more comfortable with a 5th drive with everything on it that I can jump to when I need to change my RAID configuration. In short I want 2 HDDs; 1) The first to be 4 x 250GB HDDs tied together on a RAID 0 configuration, 2) and the second too be a 1TB HDD that is an exact copy of the Logical Drive. Anyone know of a concise way of doing that? I understand it all sounds very convoluted, that is why I am posting on forums for advice on how to do this, or a better way of doing it.


What you wan't isn't possible. You can't have RAID 0+1 with "the speed of 4 drives" without having 8. That is just the definition of the way 0+1 works. Since mirroring writes to the same drive at the same time, you'll be limited by the single drive (I have never tried this, but I am sure you could stripe the 4 drives into a volume and then mirror the stripped volume with a single drive... but again, I don't see the point).

Once configured, there is zero reason to "change" the RAID config. That is asking for trouble. Set it up and leave it alone.

Further, I don't see the point of what you are trying to accomplish. What is your real goal?


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:38 pm 
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My ultimate goal is to have SSDs but since they are so expensive right now I figured I would buy 4 HDDs, tie them together on RAID 0, and get increased speed on a budget. I really don't want to reinstall everything when I create a new RAID volume, instead I would like to create a copy of my logical drive, create the new RAID 0 volume using 4 HDDs, and then load everything back on to my new/faster logical drive. The copying process doesn't need to be done through RAID as long as I don't have to go through the hassle or reinstalling all my programs, files, OS, ect...


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:24 am 
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Why not just buy 1 SSD and 1 huge drive for data instead of 4 hard drives for raid + your 1 TB drive?

Then RAID isn't even involved and you would just copy/image the drive normally when it comes time to replace/upgrade the SSD.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:34 am 
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Before you Image your drive, make sure you have the Raid driver loaded in windows. If not, the new raid volume you created won't boot.

Did you read through the links I supplied?

Nasty


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:17 am 
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CrashTECH wrote:
Why not just buy 1 SSD and 1 huge drive for data instead of 4 hard drives for raid + your 1 TB drive?

Then RAID isn't even involved and you would just copy/image the drive normally when it comes time to replace/upgrade the SSD.


1 SSD wouldn't be as fast as the setup I am talking about, 2 SSDs on RAID 0 would be comparable.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:29 am 
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Nastyman wrote:
Before you Image your drive, make sure you have the Raid driver loaded in windows. If not, the new raid volume you created won't boot.

Did you read through the links I supplied?

Nasty


I did not read through your links. I did however follow my manuals instructions when first trying to work with RAID, as well as reading the entire wikipedia page on RAID. In short, yes, I have the drivers loaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Will the Windows 7 system image utility allow me to create something I can boot to? I had always assumed I would need some 3rd party software.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:12 am 
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pinson101 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
Why not just buy 1 SSD and 1 huge drive for data instead of 4 hard drives for raid + your 1 TB drive?

Then RAID isn't even involved and you would just copy/image the drive normally when it comes time to replace/upgrade the SSD.


1 SSD wouldn't be as fast as the setup I am talking about, 2 SSDs on RAID 0 would be comparable.


Have you benchmarked this?

I really doubt that you need to go to all the trouble. Just buy a single SSD and call it a day.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:18 am 
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I have always used third party software to make a image of my hard drives. I have been using Ghost 2003. If you buy Acronis True Image it will do what you want to do with windows 7...I don't know if Win 7 makes a bootable image. I have read about but not used Clonzill for making backup images.

http://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live.php

Nasty


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:33 pm 
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CrashTECH wrote:
pinson101 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
Why not just buy 1 SSD and 1 huge drive for data instead of 4 hard drives for raid + your 1 TB drive?

Then RAID isn't even involved and you would just copy/image the drive normally when it comes time to replace/upgrade the SSD.


1 SSD wouldn't be as fast as the setup I am talking about, 2 SSDs on RAID 0 would be comparable.


Have you benchmarked this?

I really doubt that you need to go to all the trouble. Just buy a single SSD and call it a day.


I use Crystal Disk Mark, and I haven't benchmarked the SSDs I don't own for obvious reasons lol :D. I go by what the company quotes them as doing. If y'all(sorry, born and raised Texan) know of some better free benchmarking software I would love for someone to drop me a thread for the download site.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Idk about how valuable benchmarks will be. What are you looking to do with it?

I really think it is in your best interest to buy an SSD and a data drive and not fuss with all the RAID stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Try this one:

http://www.attotech.com/products/produc ... _Benchmark

Nasty


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:50 pm 
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CrashTECH wrote:
Idk about how valuable benchmarks will be. What are you looking to do with it?

I really think it is in your best interest to buy an SSD and a data drive and not fuss with all the RAID stuff.


I am looking for a tangible increase in data transfer rates.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:32 pm 
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pinson101 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
Idk about how valuable benchmarks will be. What are you looking to do with it?

I really think it is in your best interest to buy an SSD and a data drive and not fuss with all the RAID stuff.


I am looking for a tangible increase in data transfer rates.


Right, but for what purpose? Gaming? Video editing? What do you want to actually DO with this speed.

You also have to consider that adding RAID will decrease drive life and increase likelihood of failure. Also the more complex the solution is the more difficult to recover from or make changes to.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:06 pm 
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CrashTECH wrote:
pinson101 wrote:
CrashTECH wrote:
Idk about how valuable benchmarks will be. What are you looking to do with it?

I really think it is in your best interest to buy an SSD and a data drive and not fuss with all the RAID stuff.


I am looking for a tangible increase in data transfer rates.


Right, but for what purpose? Gaming? Video editing? What do you want to actually DO with this speed.

You also have to consider that adding RAID will decrease drive life and increase likelihood of failure. Also the more complex the solution is the more difficult to recover from or make changes to.


I'm a gamer, and my wife is an art major so she sometimes does some picture editing. I don't really do anything that would need quick transfer of massive amounts of data, I am more trying to push the boundaries of what I can do with my system. In doing so I know I increase the likelihood of drive failure, and increases the difficulty of recovery. That is why I would like to mirror everything I place on the drives I use in a RAID configuration, so that in case something does happen I am not S.O.L.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:33 am 
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I still think you are better off with a single SSD and a pair of standard hard drives (RAID 1) for data. If you create backup media and a fresh image of the system when you set it up you could be up and running in a few hours after you replaced the SSD. Standard hard disk failure wouldn't keep you down but would require a few hours to rebuild the mirror after replacing the drive. Worst case on the SSD failure, it would take you a full day or two to re-install everything.

Don't let me stop you though. If you think that Raid 0+1 with 8 drives is going to give you the safety and security you need with the added speed, go right ahead. You won't have much luck finding any how-tos or guides for that many drives as it isn't practical nor efficient to do so. In my experience it is not worth the headaches not to mention the money you'll have invested in hard drives...

If you insist on using several standard hard drives, get 3x500 GB drives or so and do RAID 5. It is slightly slower than RAID 0, but nothing you'll be able to detect and you have the added benefit to recover from drive failure because of the parity.

Keep in mind this will ONLY protect you from hardware failure and not data corruption. So you still need a strategy to ensure data integrity (an external drive would be sufficient).

If you are doing software RAID, forget everything. Don't bother with RAID. You will have a performance hit negating any benefits from stripping.


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 Post subject: Re: RAID 10
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:27 am 
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CrashTECH wrote:
I still think you are better off with a single SSD and a pair of standard hard drives (RAID 1) for data. If you create backup media and a fresh image of the system when you set it up you could be up and running in a few hours after you replaced the SSD. Standard hard disk failure wouldn't keep you down but would require a few hours to rebuild the mirror after replacing the drive. Worst case on the SSD failure, it would take you a full day or two to re-install everything.

Don't let me stop you though. If you think that Raid 0+1 with 8 drives is going to give you the safety and security you need with the added speed, go right ahead. You won't have much luck finding any how-tos or guides for that many drives as it isn't practical nor efficient to do so. In my experience it is not worth the headaches not to mention the money you'll have invested in hard drives...

If you insist on using several standard hard drives, get 3x500 GB drives or so and do RAID 5. It is slightly slower than RAID 0, but nothing you'll be able to detect and you have the added benefit to recover from drive failure because of the parity.

Keep in mind this will ONLY protect you from hardware failure and not data corruption. So you still need a strategy to ensure data integrity (an external drive would be sufficient).

If you are doing software RAID, forget everything. Don't bother with RAID. You will have a performance hit negating any benefits from stripping.


That's my whole point of all this. I don't want 8 drives. I want 4 on RAID 0 and a 5th one that mirrors the 4. I don't just want a back up, I want a 5 drive not associated with the others in any way so that if my logical drive for some reason decides to die on me I can jump over to the 5th drive and not have lost a thing. Then once I have fixed the problem I can just copy the 5th drive back over to a working RAID setup.


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