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 Post subject: Desperate: Need TV Tuner w/ real time display- Suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:45 pm 
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hey all

i bought a WinTV PVR USB2 last week from dell for my inspiron 6000. i hooked it up, and found a 2 to 5 second delay between video source and the display of it on my screen. this will not work, so i need some suggestions as to another device.


Goals:

1. Use a console game system via SVideo or better on my Laptop in real time (THIS IS A MUST!!)
2. TV Tuner
3. Capture Video of real time game use
4. FM Radio tuner (optional)

i'm desperate....if anyone can make a suggestion, please let me know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:49 pm 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
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I don't think you're going to find one.

The delay is the analog-digital conversion


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:07 pm 
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hi there

actually, the delay was the MPEG 2 encoding, according to everything i've researched. if what i have read is true, then anything without Hardware Encoding...or anything with the ability to turn Hardware Encoding off, should work fine.

Products that have come up in searching include Leadtek's WinFast TV USB 2, and the RTV VEG-N, but i'm still searching and not finding too much else.

this is really important for me to find soon. any help at all appreciated


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:29 pm 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
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A Murder of Crows wrote:
actually, the delay was the MPEG 2 encoding, according to everything i've researched. if what i have read is true, then anything without Hardware Encoding...or anything with the ability to turn Hardware Encoding off, should work fine.


If you shut off hardware encoding you'll be running on software encoding and may experience a much higher delay then 2 - 5 seconds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:38 pm 
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i don't need ANY encoding. i need a live feed, which is possible on my WinFast 2000XP Deluxe, which has no hardware MPEG2 encoding.

You are probably mistaking what i mean by encoding....the Hardware encoder is used for PVR functions, to take the work off the CPU, not the GPU. it's only there to encode the video stream to MPEG2 without the CPU needing to spend it's resources on it, making it easy to record something while you are browsing the web or burning dvds or something, with no lag in system response.

my WinFast TV Tuner card can not do that....it uses software and CPU encoding, and that means that when i'm recording TV, that;s pretty much all i'm doing for awhile.

However, i do not record TV from the laptop, and if i do, it's ALL that i'll be doing...i need a way to view the live picture from my video source and display it on my laptop screen in real time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:16 pm 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
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In order for Windows to display the video feed it needs to be encoded with a supported codec, so there needs to be encoding down the chain to simply display it.

Even with DV25 which is very light on the compression side (as opposed to MPEG2) you'd still see a 500 to 1000ms delay


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:24 pm 
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okay, if that's the case, explain how my cheap WinFast card does what i need with no noticable delay?

if we give up on the argument regarding encoding, can we perhaps get back to helping me find something that will work for what i need?

i know such products exist, but i need examples, reviews, suggestions.

i need no noticable delay between source and display when using a laptop screen to display my game system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:36 pm 
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A Murder of Crows wrote:
okay, if that's the case, explain how my cheap WinFast card does what i need with no noticable delay?


Voodoo? I've never seen anything that didn't have a delay of some sort.

There is one capture device that has realtime capabilties (at least according to Videoguys and what I saw at AES), but I don't think you'd like the price:

http://www.avid.com/products/dna/mojo/

I think there's a few other similar devices that'll still run you around $500


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:59 pm 
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Flytrap7 wrote:

Voodoo? I've never seen anything that didn't have a delay of some sort.


um, no. it actually works. if there is a delay, it's can not be noticed.

i think you got a wire crossed or something man....i won't claim to be a master in PC hardware knowledge, but i do know lag in a video game, and i know that my $30 WinFast card works great for gaming on my PC. I just need something that will work fine in my laptop.

Quote:
There is one capture device that has realtime capabilties (at least according to Videoguys and what I saw at AES), but I don't think you'd like the price:

http://www.avid.com/products/dna/mojo/

I think there's a few other similar devices that'll still run you around $500


uoted from the following page:
http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/misc/ ... /page5.php

"Just to see how the other inputs handled quality-wise, I hooked up the ‘ol Nintendo Gamecube and fired up a game of The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures. The graphics themselves looked just as vibrant as they do on TV, but I noticed that a lot of the text seems to be a little bit fuzzier than normal. Unfortunately I don’t have an S-Video adapter for the Gamecube so I wasn’t able to see if the same issue persisted with that input."

Here is the full review:
http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/misc/ ... st_tv_usb/

Price: $115


still looking for more opinions. you are very focused on the encoding thing....i don't care about that at all...i need real suggestions of what to use to play a Console game on without lag or delay.

i can do this already with another card. i need it on a USB connection. i've found a couple of options, but no solid opinions. please, if you want to help, don't continue on the technicalities of encoding the video stream....i just want to be able to use a damned video game console on a laptop screen, watch tv on occasion, and maybe record the movies of a video game to an MPEG or AVI.

i don't mean to be rude here, but if you don't know of any, then you aren't helping, because i know of at least 1 pci card that works first hand, and it didn't cost me $500.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:32 pm 
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A Murder of Crows wrote:
i won't claim to be a master in PC hardware knowledge, but i do know lag in a video game, and i know that my $30 WinFast card works great for gaming on my PC.


Dood, tell me your joking. Flytrap7 will fart on you if your serious.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:39 pm 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
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gramaton cleric wrote:
A Murder of Crows wrote:
i won't claim to be a master in PC hardware knowledge, but i do know lag in a video game, and i know that my $30 WinFast card works great for gaming on my PC.


Dood, tell me your joking. Flytrap7 will fart on you if your serious.


He's not gaming on it, he's running video from a console through the analog inputs to display on a computer.

He's looking for an external device that will do the same for his laptop without any video delay between the output of the console and the display on the laptop's LCD panel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:42 pm 
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http://www.plextor.com/english/products ... t_dvc.html

?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:14 pm 
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Flytrap7 wrote:
gramaton cleric wrote:
A Murder of Crows wrote:
i won't claim to be a master in PC hardware knowledge, but i do know lag in a video game, and i know that my $30 WinFast card works great for gaming on my PC.


Dood, tell me your joking. Flytrap7 will fart on you if your serious.


He's not gaming on it, he's running video from a console through the analog inputs to display on a computer.

He's looking for an external device that will do the same for his laptop without any video delay between the output of the console and the display on the laptop's LCD panel.


Thanx flytrap

yes, flytrap is right. my $30 WinFast PVR 2000XP Deluxe (damned long ass name) is only used for CONSOLE gaming on my PC.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:24 pm 
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gramaton cleric wrote:
http://www.plextor.com/english/products/product_dvc.html

?


yes, something similar to these....only, i can't make another mistake with it. in order of importance, it has to have:

1. Ability to use on Laptop (USB 2.0 or Firewire)
2. Ability to be used as a display for Console Video Game Systems thru SVideo or better connection (no noticable lag/delay between video source and display) with GOOD quality video output
3. Ability to be used as a TV Tuner
4. Ability to be used as a PVR while playing Console Video Games
5. Ability to force wide screen aspect ratios for display and capture

it would be really nice if it had an FM Tuner on it as well.

the main thing is that when making suggestions, i'd like to hear from people who have actually used the product, or be pointed to reviews for the product. It would be nice if those reviews mentioned ANY game system in them, though i have found very few in my searches.

Eventually, the hope is to be able to write code for homebrew application or to forcehack english translations to japanese games in real time, and to see the possible side effects of said hacking, no matter where i am. And when i'm not busy taking on such lofty ambitions, to be able to sit down at a starbux, plug in, and frag my way around Area 51.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:59 am 
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here is something FYI, Flytrap:

http://www.tv-cards.com/messageboard/vi ... 6230#26230

"...most USB TV cards these days are hardware encoders, therefore by association most USB cards today will have a lag or delay. Were he to purchase a non-hardware compressing USB device, it would probably work just fine with his PS2......

Hitek

P.S. I went ahead and plugged in an AverTV USB that I had sitting here just to make sure. I set my standard television to the same channel as the USB tuner, and using AmCap(so as not to taint the test by using the factory application) the video and the audio is displayed and heard at the exact same time as the live television."


THis is the kind of information i need....someone discussing a product that has been tried out and that they know works for my main goals. I was hoping to get as many opinions and options as possible, and then reduce the list by price, features, and quality.

Also, this goes on to prove the point that such TV Tuner cards exist.

EDIT:

and my search may actually be over...

http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/i ... Deluxe.htm

another review for the Leadtek unit, only this time:

Pros: Lag free; FM tuner; remote control; 3-port powered USB hub; PiP; DirectBurn; extremely low CPU usage; carrying case.
Cons: Audio bug in video editing apps; grainy composite video; fast motion creates blur.
Verdict: Lag free gaming, channel surfing from the couch, and burning DVDs without touching the hard drive is a truly wonderful thing. The Hi-Speed USB TV tuner delivers without disappointment.

"In order to test latency we decided to take it back to the basics with a good game of Donkey Kong Country. And to our surprise there was no latency whatsoever when in live mode. While the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 reviewed previously required predictive timing that had a slight learning curve to successfully game on it, Leadtek's tuner is able to pull off instant timing that makes levels like Mine Cart Carnage possible. "

this makes 2 pretty positive reviews of this unit gaming wise...i don't like the idea of "blurry fast motion" however....so if anyone has any more ideas, let me hear them!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:40 am 
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Pinnacle makes PCTV USB product in the same line, and for some reason I thought ATI made one, or used too, but I can't find it so I don't know if I imagined it or not. No idea how they really stack up against each other, whenever I have gone shopping I've always been more interested in hardware support.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:07 am 
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Urvile wrote:
Pinnacle makes PCTV USB product in the same line, and for some reason I thought ATI made one, or used too, but I can't find it so I don't know if I imagined it or not. No idea how they really stack up against each other, whenever I have gone shopping I've always been more interested in hardware support.


Thanx for that!

since i last edited, i have found:

WinFast TV USB 2
Aver Cardbus
PCTV USB


so far, only reviews ive got that were real good were the Aver Cardbus and the WinFast, and only the WinFast is supported by Windows MCE 2005....still could use more though....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:38 pm 
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Aver Cardbus, you mean this?

Aver has a few others as well, there's also a usb video capture device which specifically bills itself for realtime video capture.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:10 am 
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Wow I have been having the same problem too...with the delay, but I really have not put forth the time and resources to find a solution.

Only thing is I am using Sapphire's version of the TV Wonder Elite and that’s all I have to work with, there is a good delay, but the picture is so much better compared to previous tuners I didn’t have the heart to return it.

So my question is; how do these “realâ€


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