Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:20 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Education vs. Education and Certs
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:05 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:40 pm
Posts: 29
Which is better:

1)Education and a good GPA

2)Education with okay grades but Certs

The reason I ask is because I am currently working on a 4yr degree in CS/CSE. I want to get an internship, but my grades are okay at the moments. Would certs improve my chances.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:45 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 45
Location: sunnyvale
I would guess that the degree AND the certs to prove you have the pratical ability to use the information is a BIG plus.

Go for the degree and the cert my friend. Trust me when I say you can use all the benefits on your side.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:23 am 
Willamette
Willamette
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1447
Gahh, my post got deleted because it thought it was spam... geez.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Education + Experience = Best.
Education + Grades = Good.
Education + Certs = Good.

Education + Experience = more likely to get a job quicker out of college. My bane when getting out was "Not enough experience" or "Needs 1 year experience".

Education + Grades = ok. However, after the first job or two, for the most part grades don't really matter (even if they are astounding). It really depends on the job though, so your mileage may vary.

Education + Certs = Education trumps the certs. Sure if you have the time, it's nice to have on your resume. However, experience is better. Again, your mileage may vary, depending on the jobs. You'll hear both ways.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:26 am 
Willamette
Willamette
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1447
Oh, and getting an internship. I never did, but my recollection is that they were mainly looking for grades, but certs were good as well (depending on the company). Usually there's a lot of competition for those internships. So anything you can do to stand out from the crowd is good. The companies go for the cream of the crop if they can.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:26 am 
Sharptooth
Sharptooth
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:53 am
Posts: 432
Location: Connecticut
I would say that this can be looked at in 2 ways.

Getting Past the Gatekeeper (Getting the Interview)
In many companies you must go through what is called a "gatekeeper". You will find that this is a person usually who has no idea about the tech field, and perhaps no clue about the job itself other than its description. Still, they take all the original resumes and decide which ones should be passed to the hiring manager. This person will focus on your education and past employment, but not on what you actually did. Rather they will see how long you worked and what kinds of credentials you have.

Degree = 20%
Grades = 15%
Related Internship = 15%
Certifications = 20%
Professional Experience = 30%


Getting the Job (At The Interview)
If your resume is read by the hiring manager or a group looking to hire, they will focus much more on what you know and not how shiny your resume is. Now, I would say that unless you graduated at the top of your class with a 3.9+ GPA the people who are looking to hire you won’t even review your college information unless you lack professional experience. The only trick here is that schools that have a great deal of prestige in their names can come into play here. Yes it does matter if you went to school at Harvard, MIT, Yale, Princeton etc… But for the 99.9% of the world that goes to other colleges your degree will simply not matter that much at this point. The fact that you have the degree is what really matters.

What is most important is proving your knowledge and a kick ass interview. You need a 10/10 interview if you want to get a job in such a competitive world. You need to appeal to the person(s) hiring you, and you need to actually be able to do the job too. I would say that as long as you have a resume without anything stupid on it, you could talk your way into almost any job that exists as long as you use the right words and the right people hear them.

Degree = 4%
Grades = 1%
Related Internship = 8%
Certifications = 7%
Professional Experience = 40%
Personality = 40%

Conclusion
Grades matter, Degrees Matter, and so do many other factors. But college should be more about learning the things you need to in order to be able to get the experiences you require to present a kick ass interview. Focus on expanding what you know and you will be unstoppable.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:23 pm 
Java Junkie
Java Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:23 am
Posts: 24222
Location: Granite Heaven
/me hands GPFontaine a gold star for his post ... I'm glad I read to the end of the thread before posting or I'd have simply repeated what he said.

To answer the OP ... and not answer him at the same time, 'cause I'm mean like that .. it REALLY depends on the job for which you are applying.

If you are applying for work as a Network Engineer in a location that uses Cisco routers, switches, etc., then a Cisco cert would help immensely.

If you are applying for work as a java developer, there aren't really many certs that would help.

Any kind of experience is better than no experience. I'd hire someone who worked in a coffee shop through college over someone who hasn't worked a day in their life but got a 4.0 GPA. School is not industry; industry is not school. The most important skills don't necessarily transfer over.

Experience in your field, though, is your golden ticket past the Gatekeeper (aka HR, aka redundant assholes desperate to prove they are worth their salary).

Once you are in the interview, though, I'd weigh personality a little higher than GPF did in his post. This is largely because I've charmed my way into jobs I had no business applying for and then busted my ass to learn what I needed.

Note: do NOT lie in an interview. You will get caught .. if you are lucky, it will be during the interview. I've seen someone struggle for 3 weeks in a development job because he didn't have the skills he claimed .. and his termination was painfully embarrassing for everyone involved. You can't fake tech skills.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:32 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 2:10 am
Posts: 21
Location: San Francisco
Thanks so much for sharing information with everyone!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:18 am 
Sharptooth
Sharptooth
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:53 am
Posts: 432
Location: Connecticut
Jipstyle wrote:
/me hands GPFontaine a gold star for his post ... I'm glad I read to the end of the thread before posting or I'd have simply repeated what he said.

Wahoo! Hopefully it makes up for my bad mood day last week that bought me a vacation from the forums.

Jipstyle wrote:
Experience in your field, though, is your golden ticket past the Gatekeeper (aka HR, aka redundant assholes desperate to prove they are worth their salary).

You don't need to use the AKA there Jipstyle, that is actually the official definition of HR personnel. Oh crap... I hope they don't have a key-logger on my system. I take it back, please don't fire me. Nooooo!!!
Jipstyle wrote:
Once you are in the interview, though, I'd weigh personality a little higher than GPF did in his post. This is largely because I've charmed my way into jobs I had no business applying for and then busted my ass to learn what I needed.

I think the reason I only made it 40% was because being able to explain your Professional Experience in the correct way is more important than the experience itself. Personality will definitely get you huge bonus points, and you won't get a job if people don't like you. But I included the ability to communicate the information about past endeavors in with Professional Experience. I figure if you can't talk about it, you might as well forget you did it in an interview.

Jipstyle wrote:
Note: do NOT lie in an interview. You will get caught .. if you are lucky, it will be during the interview. I've seen someone struggle for 3 weeks in a development job because he didn't have the skills he claimed .. and his termination was painfully embarrassing for everyone involved. You can't fake tech skills.
It is also worth noting that if you do get a job you are not qualified for and you don't get fired for lack of ability, your coworkers will be very unhappy with you. It isn't because they will feel they are better than you, it is because they will have to pick up the pace to make up for what you lack. You should know right away if you are able to handle the responsibilities of a job or if at least you can learn it quickly enough to handle it.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:59 am 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:41 am
Posts: 9316
Keep in mind, that you may have exactly what the Gatekeeper is looking for but one spelling/grammer mistake and your resume gets dropped in the trash.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:11 am 
Little Foot
Little Foot

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:22 pm
Posts: 183
Location: good question
It's impossible to say with any confidence if certs are better then good grades or name of the school is better. The truth is that will change depending on who is interviewing you. The best thing is to have everything and that doesn't gaurentee anything. In fact I have heard that when you apply at Microsoft if you send in your resume in a PDF format instead of a .doc format they throw it out. So you are going to run into crazy things like that.

I do have a story abou lying on your resume. I knew someone that lyed on his and got the job. He worked there for 20 years and did a good job. Well his marrage fell apart and was going to get a divorce. Out of spite his wife called up HR and told them he lyed on his resume they checked on it and had to fire him.


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group