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 Post subject: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:03 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Miami, FL
Approximate Purchase Date: Next 2 Weeks (have March 26-30 off from work/vacation to build it)

Budget Range: $1300 - $1500 before rebates

System Usage from Most to Least Important: work (office software), surfing the internet, gaming, watching movies

Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com (but open to others)

Country: USA - Miami, FL

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU, Full ATX motherboard, open for everything else

Overclocking: Maybe, but down the road if needed

SLI or Crossfire: Crossfire or SLI depending on card- future

Monitor Resolution: Max Res: 1920 X 1080 (going to be using a HP - 23" Flat-Panel LED HD Monitor)

Additional Comments: No bling, no leds, simple all black case, sleeper/stealth look (car reference :))


Ok here is what I have been looking at so far:

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V LE LGA 1155 Intel Z68 - $137.99

Processor/RAM: Intel Core i7-2600 Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor + CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9 - $376.98

CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS9500A-LED 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - $42.99 (ok one LED, but its not bright ;))

Thermal Paste: Artic Silver 5 - $12.99

Case: NZXT Crafted Series Tempest 410 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $79.99

Additional Case Fans: Antec 761345-75120-9 120mm Case Fan - 2 @ 8.13 = $16.26

Power Supply: Rosewill CAPSTONE Series CAPSTONE-750 750W Continuous @ 50°C, 80 PLUS GOLD Certified - $109.99

SSD: Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR120GB 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - 2 @ 144.99 = $289.98

HDD: None (for now, will add one when/if needed)

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - OEM - $139.99

Graphics Card: MSI R6850 Cyclone PE/OC Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 - $164.99

Soundcard: None/On board (may add a card later if needed)

CD/DVD ROM: SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black 1.5Gbps Model SH-222AL/BSBS LightScribe Support - OEM - $19.99

MISC: Rosewill RTK-002 Anti-Static Wrist Strap - $4.99

GRAND TOTAL w/shipping - $1,415.40

I need a PC for everything (tired of using a notebook) and Diablo 3 is coming out sooner than later. But, other games I will probably play Sykrim and World of Warcraft. I know I am a bit behind on computer gaming, but college/women/partying and then work/women/partying I have gotten away from being all about computers.

I have NEVER built an entire PC before (always wanted to), but I have done pretty much everything else short of installing a motherboard/processor/cooler. I want this build to last (kind of future proof/upgradeable) and super fast. Tired of Dell's or other PCs burning out and want QUALITY components w/out being bent over for extra $$$ for upgrades. Also, I am planning on doing RAID 0 w/ the 2 SSD Drives as soon as TRIM support is available for Raid and RST 11.5 (should be out anytime now right?)

So am I missing anything? Any suggestions/recommendations/changes? Totally overkill???

Thanks in advance for your help.

-CHAD


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:28 am 
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WOAH! Everyone get a load of this! A new comer to this forum that actually followed directions with proper information, expectations, budget and even a sensible pc part list! You sir are the first person I've seen who have done this in like months. Anyhow, welcome to the forum! :mrgreen:

Anyhow, you probably picked the worst time to build for the simple fact that there's some very new and cool products being released in early April from Intel (Ivy Bridge cpu's) and Nvidia (Kepler 600 series gpu's); all while AMD's new 7800 mid range gpu's are expected to hit the shelves in a week or two from now that would hit your price point very well. If you can't wait and must build now, don't be deterred since you can still build a kickass budget gaming box that will hold it's own against the new stuff and last you a few years.


So lets go over your parts list.

You mostly have good selections, but you can trim the fat in some parts and expand on others to up your price/performance ratio in different areas that you'll actually use. If the most demanding thing you will be doing on the PC will be gaming, then you don't need to spend the extra $100 for the i7 2600 over the cheaper i5 2500k. The i5 quad core is essentially the same chip as the i7 2600k, but without Hyper-Threading. You won't need it for games as most modern games can't use no more than 2-4 cores; even then, most modern game engines are heavily gpu oriented anyhow. BF3 barely uses 30-40% cpu power and that's suppose to be the most advanced game engine right now. You also selected the non-K version so you won't be going too far with overclocking potential.

You also paired the cpu with a Zalman cpu cooler. Nothing wrong with them, but they are very very dated compared to the cpu cooling market now days. That's basically a 5+ year old design that worked well in the P4 days (had one... actually still have it), but if you want overclocking and good cooling capacity, nothing beats the price/performance of the Cooler Master 212+ or their newer EVO coolers for $20-30. And they are big; using 120mm fan(s) with massive heat pipes and fins. Both dwarfs the Zalman and a much better product for a cheaper price! I actually got a 212+ for $15AR about 3 months ago and they were on newegg for $18 just a week or two ago.

As for thermal paste, Arctic Silver 5 is also a bit dated. It's still good; I still use my same tube of AS5 from 10+ years ago, but if you don't have AS5 already, no sense in spending money on it specially when there are much better compounds out today. The two I'd look at is the IC7 Diamond and the AC MX-4; both are around $7-12 per tube of 1.5g or 4g. Once I use up my AS5, I'll probably get the AC MX-4 myself; works just as good as the IC7 and you get over double the amount of paste (although, 1.5g is more than enough for 10 applications or more).

Cases? Shit. So many out there on the market right now that are good, specially in the $50-100 price range, even the 100-160 has some great offers that would still fit your budget. Cooler Master 912, 922, 932, Storm series, 690 II; Antec 300, 900, Illusion, Sonata; NZXT source 220, Phantom 410, Phantom; Corsair 400r, 600t; Lian-Li Lancool series; Fractal Design Arc Midi, Define R3, Define XL; Silverstone Raven series RV03B and even some Newegg's own Rosewill Challenger and Thor cases are fairly decent. Just pick something you like and roll with it. I haven't built PC's in all of those chassis, but most of them; I like those I listed as well as their $150 or less price tags.

Power supplies? Again, so many to list. I do have to say that I'm one of the few that just hate Rosewill units. I had 5, 3 burned out within 6 months; wasn't even worth it to send them back so I just replaced them with proper quality units from the bigger names. People always say good things about them, but I just kept getting bad ones even though I love newegg and rosewill do make some decent other products.

And besides, you don't have to break the bank to get a quality name brand unit to fit your budget. Look at Corsair, Antec, OCZ, PC Power & Cooling, Silverstone and Seasonic as the name brands to look at first. Even Cooler master, XFX and Thermaltake makes some good stuff for a good value. There are quite a bit of other new commers to look at, but they usually are a bit more expensive, hit a product niche (explains their price), or usually a re-branded unit with the same components as some other good quality maker. FSP, Kingwin and Enermax fit that category, but they are very expensive for the price and offer crazy high 80+ gold or platinum efficiency in small wattage. I'd just stick with the 1st or 2nd tier brands with at least an 80+ bronze rating for your budget.

As for SSD's, the Mushkin Enhanced Chronos are great little buggers. I've used them on a few builds for friends and they've been very reliable and speedy. It's not a bad price at $145, but its also using async NAND's and a bit on the expensive side compared to other async NAND SSD's on the market. You can save a few bucks and look at the OCZ 120gb Agility 3 for $130 a piece that uses the same NAND's and controller; they are still speedy and most of my friends who use them have no issues running them. Alternatively, you can look at sync NAND's like that in OCZ Vertex 3 and Corsair GT SSD's (there's a lot of them out there btw, but they hit a higher price point than these two). Both are around the $150-180 price point for the 120's.

Quote:
I am planning on doing RAID 0 w/ the 2 SSD Drives as soon as TRIM support is available for Raid and RST 11.5

Honestly, TRIM doesn't really matter too much, at least for your purposes because of three reasons.
    1. It only helps mitigate your write speeds over time if your system/work flow demands constant file rewrites; specially if you fill your SSD up fast, then edit a lot of files, move them around and such. Chances are with your system, you won't be moving or rewriting gigs worth of files every 30 minutes like in a server setting.

    2. TRIM doesn't do anything for the read speeds.

    3. Most modern SSD's already have a good firmware level Garbage Collection, which acts like TRIM without OS level commands.

I'd also recommend adding at least a mechanical storage drive to your setup, like a cheap 2TB drive. They aren't too expensive right now and they are getting back down to reasonable price points; maybe not the crazy cheap $57 of last year, but $100ish isn't bad

For OS? You can save the $40 and grab the Win7 Home Premium. You really don't need the features in Pro for home/gaming use. I mean there are some features that are better in pro (and I use pro myself), but you really won't add more than 16gb in this pc (max limit for home premium), have the need to use windows remote connect (if you do, plenty of VNC remote software out there), or need some of the features to run antiquated business apps.

And like I said above for video cards; by the time you order this setup in 2 weeks, the 7850 and 7870 will be out and primed to hit a very sweet price/performance ratio that will kill the current offerings in the $250-350 price range (includes 560 ti 2gb, 560ti 448, 6950 2gb, 6970 2gb and the 570). Not to forget the GTX 660 and 670, but they might be a bit high with the msrp of 400+. We'll cross that bridge once we hear more info and proper reviews next month about them.

And don't waste $5 for a stupid anti-static wrist strap. Just make sure you aren't wearing wool socks, fleece sweatshirts or rub your hair constantly. Just ground yourself by touching bare metal every once in a while and you should be fine. Components aren't as sensitive to static electricity like they used to be. At least for PC parts... maybe not so much with high powered photo equipment, but we won't go there. hehe



So here's a quick build to use as a good starter point:

So going with what I said before, I stuck with the i5 2500k since its cheap and has great overclocking potential. Paired with it is the cheap CM 212 EVO cooler with the ASrock Ext3 Gen3 board (made by Asus btw) that's basically very similar to the Z68 Asus board you selected originally. It has everything you need without too much fluff and added cost for things you won't use. Comes with two pcie 3.0 slots (need 3.0 capable cpu and gpu to complete the trifecta), support for Intel's new Ivy Bridge chip (1st lga 1155 pcie 3.0 capable chip), quality caps and components, and has been known to be stable at 5ghz speeds when running proper cooling. Really don't need much more than this for a $1500 build.

The down side with most budget enthusiast boards is that they don't use the now new standard, 20pin male internal connect for the front mounted usb 3.0 port(s) found on some newer cases. The 20 pin standard was released 8 months after usb 3.0 started to hit the shelves, but case manufacturers jumped the ship and did usb 3.0 extenders for the front ports, routed to the outside of the case into the back I/O ports because of the lack of an internal standard. So you have to be mindful of this when you buy your usb 3.0 case.

For Intel, you have to spend $180+ for such a connector thanks to the incompetence of the industry and how fast they wanted to put usb3.0 standards in computers to compete for external devices. Its almost crazy considering AMD AM3+ boards have the same connectors on $130 boards. Even the higher end lga 2011, the cheapest board with the 20 pin connector is around $260+! I'm sure the newer z77 chipset boards will include the 20pin on cheaper budget boards (or hopefully) when they are released at the same time as Ivy Bridge in early April.

I added only a pair of 4GB sticks for a total of 8GB, but you really don't need more than this for a gaming rig; even with today's modern games and office apps. Games like BF3 won't even use more than 1-2GB while Skyrim did update the exe file to go form 2gb to 4gb of memory addressing, but that's assuming you put custom HD res packs and modify your graphic settings manually beyond the settings you can change within the game. And even then, you'll only use about 5gb total including OS and whatever crap you have running in the back ground. You can add another two sticks for 16gb, but its basically overkill at that point. Its useful in some other apps like if you do heavy excel work or crunch some stats figures or content creation software like video editing.

You'll also notice the sticks are Samsung 4gb 1600 cas11 modules. Why did I select that? Well its one of the most underrated sticks right now since it uses the new samsung 30nm ram chips that use very little power, runs at 1.35v stock (compared to 1.5v) and is heavily overclockable to insane speeds for being a cheap price of $24 per stick. You can run them at 9-10-10 at 2133 speed around 1.55-1.6v with others saying they were able to hit 2200 and even 2400 stable clocks with relatively low timings as well. Most have said they just stayed at 9-9-9 2000 speed at 1.5v or the 2133 setting for stability. You can read more about it at Tech Power Up and Overclockers review about this.

But again, this is very marginal performance gains of about 1-7% so take it with a grain of salt. If it seems like more work than you are willing to put in it (and honestly, it really isn't a lot of of guess work), then stick with any name brand 1600 speed cas9 or less 1.5v or less ram modules like the corsair vengeance you selected. Newgg has a good price on the G.Skill sniper series 1600 cas9 1.25v 8gb ram set for $50.

Add a pair of OCZ vertex 3 120's for $150 a piece, a spare 2tb 7200 drive for storage and you good on space for a while. I threw in the EVGA GTX 560 ti 448 as a filler for now since I would recommend the new, upcoming AMD 7850 2GB since its suppose to hit the $250 prince point that the 560 ti 448 hits; I would have selected the AMD 6950 2gb, but they all seem to have gotten sold out everywhere and discontinued in a very short time frame.

For the case, I picked the NZXT source 220; very similar to your selection of the tempest, just a bit cheaper and honestly looks a lot prettier. The internals is the same, but the tempest does have one extra slot for fan above the gpu compartment. Still, lots of selection to choose from of what I said before. Pick the style that you like the best and looks good for you. Just remember, the NZXT case uses the 20pin connector and the ASrock board doesn't have this; so you'll have to use a male 20pin to female usb 3.0 A adpater then use a male usb 3.0 A to male usb 3.0 A cable to connect to the outside I/O panel. Its a cheap work around that shouldn't cost more than $10ish.

PSU wise, you can get away with a cheap $50 OCZ 600w unit that would be more than enough to power a one card solution with even a bit of overclocking on the system. But I selected the OCZ 850w 80+ gold unit for the same price as the IMHO rosewill crap. The Z and ZX series has won a lot of awards and recommended by a lot of review sites including JohnnyGuru. Its the same unit I'm running and powers my triple 570, i7 setup even though I'm using the whole amount of the 850w, even a bit over with no stability issues. Just have good things to say about it; others do to. And I've been running OCZ psu's for the last few years; absolute quality and great value when you get them on sale. (I got my 850 for $80AR fyi).

Finally, slapped in a cheap dvd burner and win7 home premium and your almost done.


The other tidbits will be the small stuff.

Other options is to go with the Rosewill 4pack 120mm case fans for $12.84, but they move half as much air as the rosewill above. Alternatively, you can select the cheap Yate Loon 120mm case fans for $6.99 each. They come in low, medium and high speeds for the same price @ FrozenCPU. If you go with the louder high speed version, make sure you get a fan controller so you can control them easily. There's tons of them on the market, but just get something decent around the $15-25 price point. Don't need anything fancy to control some cheap fans. But if you want to move some air and stay relatively quiet, then people have said decent things about the Cougar 120mm fan, but they are a bit expensive at $13 a piece.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:09 am 
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Wow thanks for that excellent reply/explanation. I can wait a bit on the build, but w/PCs there is always the next big thing. My deadline to have it built really is June (moving from a small apartment to a house sometime in May). LOL on the Zalman cooler, they were the shit last time I was into computers (P3/P4 days and I was prolly playing Quake 3). Same thing for the Artic Silver. I am trying to catch up on all the new technology and lingo.

I see where you are going with the cooler and I like it...also noticed these two as well between the 212 and the two below, which one is the best?

Corsair A70: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835181011
EVGA M020: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835288001

I really like that Corsair 400R case and the fact that it already has 3 cases fans, SSD ready bays w/o the need for adapter, and thumb screws on the side panels and tool-free drive installation. Do I really need extra case fans for it, if I am not OCing? (can add later when I want to OC) They are cheap though, so if its good idea I will.

As for the video card, I will take a wait and see approach as you suggest. I am sure if I wait until May or June more options and/or lower prices will help.

Good info on the powers upply, I will probably go with the OCZ unit linked. How about this one:
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139021

The SSD is the OCZ one faster than the Munskin? B/c there is a big difference in the IO flops between the two? Really new to this SSD thing.

What about the RAID 0 w/SSD w/o TRIM? I have been reading that it is not a good idea w/o it due to data security? Also, is SSD RAID 0 that much faster or is an SSD pretty much maxed out already?

Lastly, the whole new Intel Ivory Bridge chipset, whats the skinny on that?

Thanks again for the help. I know it’s a lot of questions and I really appreciate the guidance.

Chad


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Weren't the vertex 3s major problems for most people? I would get 2 of these http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch- ... slicinc-20 they are a lot more reliable.

http://www.overclock.net/t/988085/heres ... ex-3-issue My general rule of thumb is to never buy anything related to memory from OCZ. I have had nothing but problems with them.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:15 am 
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Honestly, its hard to say because people on the internet blow things way out of proportions and would otherwise skew user reviews since most of of the time, people who have problems tend to be the ones who post user reviews on websites. OCZ just got a bad wrap from Vertex 2's and it just stuck. Agility/Vertex 3 had some similar issues/faults, but it was related to a firmware issue on launch.

Everyone I know who uses OCZ SSD's from Vertex 1 to the modern Vertex 3, including Agility series, never had any issues. We were all talking about this the other day of why so many people just hate OCZ SSD's, it just went viral even though firmware fixes were released, people continue to complain. I wouldn't have any second thought of running a vertex/agility 3 if you get a good price point on them.

The crucial isn't bad, its just not as good of price point as other ssd's in it's class and its write performance isn't that high. For that price, I'd grab the Mushkin Chronos Deluxe instead. Personally, if I had some money to throw away, I'd look at the solid samsung 830's.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:26 am 
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I have a Agility 3 120Gb SSD as my main OS drive and I haven't had nary a problem with it. I know that it uses the slower NAND memory but I got it at a steal for $120. I went from sitting and waiting on my old faithful Spinpoint F3, I still got love for it though, to boot up or load programs or games, to wait....what is that word again? Did you say wait?

Going from a HDD to a SSD is like night and day. So what if the vertex 3 might be faster so what if the Samsung 830 is faster, I love the SSD world! Though we may want the fastest we can get, the reality is a SSD in almost any form mainly the more recent ones still kicks ass! I will vouch for OCZ SSDs and say I haven't had one a issue yet.<fingers crossed, knocking on wood>


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:31 am 
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And yeah, lets be honest. In day to day task, you won't see any difference between "slow" async to sync NAND's. Sure, you might wait an extra .2 seconds to open a file, but unless you are looking to transfer 120GB at one time... its up to the user to warrant the extra cost that fits their requirements. And besides, We are only talking about 1-2 seconds delay at this point between a cheap SSD like Agility 3 vs. Vertex 3 for major application start.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:40 am 
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Wow....it really takes a long time to approve my posts. I submitted my response and a few more questions (see post #3) and it finally got approved a day later. Is it b/c I am new member and the mods have to approve your first XX amount of posts?

Anyways, great discussion on SSD drives. I feel a lot more up to date now.

A few more questions regarding updating drivers...

1) I notice that both the mobo manufacturers and Intel releases chipset drivers. Is it safe to assume I should go w/the drivers from the mobo manufacturer?

2) Same question for videocards. AMD and Nvidia release drivers and so does the videocard manufacturer. For this I assume stick w/the manufacturer as well?

3) I plan on skipping drivers on the supplied CDs for my various components and downloading all the latest drivers onto a flashdrive prior to boot up and installing those. Good plan?

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:35 am 
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Quote:
I can wait a bit on the build, but w/PCs there is always the next big thing

That's true, but literally, the NEXT BIG THING, is 4 weeks away. New GPU's from both AMD and Nvidia and the new Intel cpu's; all of which should prove to be a worth wild wait and expected jump in performance with decent prices for budget builds like yours. I'm probably going to upgrade to the new Ivy Bridge or look at the more expensive, current sandy-e bridge chips; but that would require me to offload three 570's which I could probably fence fairly easily.

As for the Corsair A70, its like a cheap knock off of the 212+ with two fans. I have the cheaper A50 one fan 3 heat pipe cooler in my older rig and I like it, but I only paid $8 shipped for it. The A50 was as low as $4 and the A70 was $12 on sale a few months back. Both aren't bad, but the EVO is still a better product the same price. Even the older 212+ performs the same as the A70; the reason why everyone (including myself) loves CM 212+ and EVO's.

And don't even bother spending money for the EVGA cooler. For $50, there's a lot better options and honestly it doesn't perform that much better than an EVO. You would be close to the entry level Corsair H60 all-in-on liquid cooler or the Antec 920 version as well. Not to mention the $80 Corsair H80 or the best air cooler on the market; the Noctua NH-D14 cpu cooler that actually out performs the H80 liquid cooler! But when I say its big... it will take up half your motherboard. Its basically two EVO's glued together. lol


The corsair 400r is an excellent case; it doesn't have all the bling that some people want and I acutally enjoy the looks of a stock looking case in that style myself. Lots of cooling options and a quality case; plus its a steal at around $80-90. As for case fans, you really don't need to add any more for that case. You could if you want to, but if you don't plan on OC, just stick with what you get.

As for Corsair psu's, plenty of people love them; I like them too, but for the value I stick with OCZ. They are on sale right now with the 15% off, plus the mail in rebates stack so they hit close to the same values as current OCZ units. If you wanted to save a few bucks, the TX 750 v2 is a great price for $80; corsair psu's in this power range rarely go on sale so a good chance to pick one up. But I'm biased towards OCZ psu's (heh)

Quote:
The SSD is the OCZ one faster than the Munskin? B/c there is a big difference in the IO flops between the two? Really new to this SSD thing.

What about the RAID 0 w/SSD w/o TRIM? I have been reading that it is not a good idea w/o it due to data security? Also, is SSD RAID 0 that much faster or is an SSD pretty much maxed out already?

Honestly, for home use, you really won't see much difference; the amount of inputs/outputs per seconds really only matter for multi-tasking operations and non sequential file transfers of both your read and write operations. You really want to look at how well a particular SSD will handle with random reads and writes since that's where most performance issues will get bogged down.

But again, for home use like in a gaming rig, most of your files, applications and other sources of data are going to be grouped together in a sequential pattern for fast reads; even when they write/re-write to a new block, the data will be sequential. Unless you plan on doing massive amounts of file moving/reads/writes, then IOPS is important, otherwise its kinda arbitrary.

When you open a file and re-save it, it nullifies the location of the first file (called pages) in the memory block; in essence it is marked for "deletion". Once that certain memory block is full or gets close to full, the system would then transfer all the important/latest files to a new memory block while the old one is tagged as being free/open for new writes. This task is done to reduce the amount of writes on the SSD memory since they do "worn" down over time with usage. This is called "garbage collection" and is a firmware level maintenance to keep your read/write speeds to their full potential.

TRIM performs the similar function of garbage collection, but it does so with communication from the OS to make sure it nullifies and marks the proper files in the blocks; so when the blocks are near to their capacity, are full or if a background GC service runs, the up to date files are then moved to new blocks. Think of TRIM as the OS operated GC, very similar to defragging a normal mechanical hard drive (AND NO, YOU DON'T WANT TO DEFRAG AN SSD!!! BOLD LETTERS!!!!). Also to note, GC is very important and the reason why you never want to fill your SSD's up since you need free blocks to move pages around.

But since most modern SSD's have some sort of aggressive form of GC running in the background when the drives are in idle, TRIM really isn't that necessary for a home environment.

As for raid 0, two modern SSD's will completely saturate your SATA3 bandwidth; even then, one SSD will get fairly close. But this is actually the limitation of your chipset since p67 and z68 limits up to 6 Gb/s for your entire SATA lanes. If you really want more SATA bandwidth to augment the 6 you already have, then you have to look at putting in a pcie raid card for even higher speeds. And they do make pcie ssd drives; look at the crazy expensive OCZ revo drives that can hit 1000-1500MB/sec+... for a pretty penny.

As for z77, probably more of the same of the z68 with probably some claim that its better suited for ivy bridge. There's also the B75, Q75, Q77,H77, Z75 lines of chipsets to look at as well. The z75 and z77 say you can OC the Intel gpu core... I donno why you want to do something like that... heh. Also, its been hinted that the z77 can split up the 16 pcie 3.0 lanes to x8,x4,x4 for proper triple sli support; even the z68 boards now that support triple sli actually use the 8x lane that goes through the chipset; not the dedicated lanes for the gpu's so in theory, there shouldn't be any timing issues with SLI/xfire mode.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:06 am 
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JBaz wrote:
Quote:
As for raid 0, two modern SSD's will completely saturate your SATA3 bandwidth; even then, one SSD will get fairly close. But this is actually the limitation of your chipset since p67 and z68 limits up to 6 Gb/s for your entire SATA lanes. If you really want more SATA bandwidth to augment the 6 you already have, then you have to look at putting in a pcie raid card for even higher speeds. And they do make pcie ssd drives; look at the crazy expensive OCZ revo drives that can hit 1000-1500MB/sec+... for a pretty penny.


Ok I understand the limitation of the SATA3, but I would be hooking up the two SSD in Raid0 via the SATA6 connectors....so would that be worth while or would I still not really see much of a performance gain over one SSD?

Maybe I am over analyzing this, but is the total bandwith limted to 6gb/s regardless of connecting SATA3 or SATA6? If so then I am definitely going to skip the 2nd SSD and just go for the HDD you recommended.


Edit: What about the Intel X79 chipset, does that have the same SATA limitation as the z68?


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:52 am 
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Intel uses the ICH10r controller to communicate your SATA drives with your chipset; the bandwidth limit of the ICH10r is set at 6Gb/sec.

In realistic terms, you won't see much over 700MB/sec with sequential reads/writes. So in Raid 0, it really doesn't help that much with sequential data, but jump over to your IOPS and randoms? That's where you'll see most of your benefits. It depends how you store and use your data on your drive. For home use, random isn't going to be used too much provided your files are in order and you let your drive do GC often.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:00 am 
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I am going to take this all in and let it marinate for a while. I will reaccess in a few weeks after the new stuff comes out. I am sure I will have some more questions sooner then later. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:02 pm 
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I would get these instead of the Vertex 3 http://www.adorama.com/CT128M4SSD2.html ... cj_3938566


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:44 am 
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For $180 a piece...


Also, reviews on the new Ivy Bridge i7's are out! At stock speeds, performs very close to the more expensive lga 2011 chips; not to shabby at all!


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:08 am 
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JBaz wrote:
For $180 a piece...


Also, reviews on the new Ivy Bridge i7's are out! At stock speeds, performs very close to the more expensive lga 2011 chips; not to shabby at all!


Thanks for the article link...very informative.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:51 pm 
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JBaz wrote:
For $180 a piece...


Also, reviews on the new Ivy Bridge i7's are out! At stock speeds, performs very close to the more expensive lga 2011 chips; not to shabby at all!


Yesterday they were 153. They changed the price back to normal.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:05 pm 
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The ole bait and switch routine ehh? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Good deal:
http://slickdeals.net/f/4044040-i5-2500 ... AAAFOz21CA


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:53 pm 
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^good find! Specially since you can buy it on the web. That is a killer board, played with one when building a friends BF3 gaming box about 5 months ago. I liked it, solid board.


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 Post subject: Re: New PC Build - $1300-$1500
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Good news….My budget has increased a bit due to a NICE tax refund (completely forgot about it). So let us up the anti to $1800. Ok guys...kind of a mini update to my parts list (still not purchasing for now, until the new GPUs and Ivory Bidge are released).

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master TPC 812XS

Case: Cosair 300r

Power Supply SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

I may still go with the Cooler Master EVO 212, but this TPC 812XS looks VERY interesting and is new product (not even for sale yet, as it was just announced on Feb. 24th).

As for the case, the 300r is a little smaller than the 400r and fits my needs better w/o having way too much extra space I don't need.

As for the Power Supply, I may go with the OCz unit Jbaz recommended....but it probably will not be on sale by the time I build and the Seasonic unit is Fully Modular, 80 Plus Gold, and the fan is SUPER silent. It has a “Hybrid Silent Fan Control” design, which offers three distinct operation modes, fanless mode, silent mode, and cooling mode. It automatically adjusts fan mode and speed according to the ambient temperature level.

I am heavily leaning to the Socket 2011 mobo/CPU due to the 4-channel memory and abilty to use a 6-core or 4-core i7. Also, I like the fact that the Socket 2011 does not need the backing plate for the CPU cooler and seems a bit easier to install a large CPU cooler. I know I don’t really need the 4-channel or the 6-core for gaming (yet), but I am not going to build another computer for quite some time. A few $100 more to make the build a bit more future-proof is worth it.

Any commnets/critique of the new parts?

Questions:

I am a little worried about the size of these CPU coolers and my case. Will I have any trouble fitting a Cooler Master EVO 212 or this 812XS in the Corsair 300r Case? From the look of the case to me there is plenty room, but these coolers are HUGE.

How should I apply the thermal paste? Pea-sized drop and let the cooler spread it by the pressure/force of attaching it or should I spread it myself? From the install videos I have seen of the EVO 212 and 212+ most people seem to be spreading it themselves (either with a plastic card or the finger/bag method).


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