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 Post subject: Water Block from the ground up.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:20 pm 
Little Foot
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This is one of the latest Water Blocks I've made recently. I plan to put this on a x4 940. I have done some testing and I would like some opinions.

The Block mounted on a 5200+ Pics.

Image

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj71 ... CN4353.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj71 ... CN4354.jpg

This is a screen shot of 15 hrs Cpu load test @ 41c.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj71 ... 5hours.png

I have run this on a 9850 @ load but failed to bring the screenshots home for that.

So based on what you've seen, Tell me what you think!

How could I improve it? Should I give it a paint job? Decals maybe lol?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:44 am 
Million Club 2+ [PC]*
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Making your own water block = good geek cred! Way to go dude! So, what's the core voltage and GHz on that CPU? I don't usually trust Everest for voltages. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:56 pm 
Little Foot
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Core voltage was at stock. That was at 2.8ghz. Not a great over clock because the board it's in is a mini Atx = No good for ocing. the bios is way limited.

That was just a leak test Run. All the parts where real cheap so I wanted the leak test done on a PC with a load. I really was not aiming for a high OC yet.

I just want some approvals before I go putting this on my Phenom II 940.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Looks good to me. I don't know why you aren't already putting it through some commissioning runs as long as it isn't leaking. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:12 pm 
Little Foot
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Quakindude wrote:
Looks good to me. I don't why you aren't already putting it through some commissioning runs as long as it isn't leaking. :wink:


Mostly time being a problem. I also need to get hold of some more coolant, which chumly has so kindly directed me in the right direction for, and some new tubing also. I like to always have extra of that just in case.

Is it true the shorter the toobing routes the better, or does it make any difference?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:17 pm 
Boy in Black
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Looks to be fail to me. Sorry, but you're not doing much here but putting metal on a block and filling it with water.

That thing looks like a solenoid head piped with water. JB weld? You can't use 0-rings and get a seal?

Your first sin is using aluminum....and a monkey wrench.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:02 pm 
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If chumly wasnt such an estemed (and has too many posts for me to count) I would call that trolling. I think that the waterblock is awesome. Very cool.

Just a hint dude, did you know that if you put
Code:
[img][/img]
tags around your images, they will display on this page, instead of us having to click them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:07 pm 
Little Foot
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Chumly wrote:
Looks to be fail to me. Sorry, but you're not doing much here but putting metal on a block and filling it with water.

That thing looks like a solenoid head piped with water. JB weld? You can't use 0-rings and get a seal?

Your first sin is using aluminum....and a monkey wrench.


Hey NVM the post above me Chumly. He doesn't know... I can understand where your coming from. But here's the deal.

I melted and poured the aluminum. That is not a pre-manufactured piece of any thing at all. But Hey you can't tell right?

Yes I can use rubber 0-rings. I did that on the next block I made which is more sized for a chipset. It's not JB weld. Just some black High temp. The fittings actually didn't leak. It was added as a cautionary deal.

And isn't all water blocks some Brass or Copper (with a top) with liquid poured through it?

Your Opinion is fine Chumly. Doesn't hurt my feelings any at all.

And without a monkey wrench being invented, water pipes would be hard to work with ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:33 pm 
Boy in Black
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Thanks for understanding. When you post work openly, we all open our ideas and builds to scrutiny.

I really thought that was a Solenoid head, no lie. Why is there ports on the side plugged then? Experiment early on to side feed the block?

I have to say your first flaw was in using Ai and not Cu. It's just really hard to work with, while Cu is like working with lead...and what real fisherman hasn't made their own sinks with a burner? Cu just has much better properties all around. My last block was formed from Cu I ripped from the yard and garage. It's expensive to buy, but it makes that PVC retro in the house seem really appealing!

Yellow brass has some great features, and is really nice to use when using water. It's harder (IMO) to pour than copper and keep it's basic function the same. Brass is something I'd buy and machine more than pour it. Copper is nice, like lead, because you pull the impurities off the skim. Brass, you don't want to pull that off.

Grim, I cast copper blocks, and have patents on cooling designs. If I'm to say anything, it's good...not destructive. Never mind my post count, as that has nothing to do with dick. Here, or anywhere. I make valid points, and should be debated logically and with science...not saying i have too many posts to retort toward. He's putting water through metal, and that's it. I don't see how that's remotely trolling, but pointing out the over simplistic ideal in this task. All you did is point me out, and help with how to use bbCode.

Thanks. Now what do you really think? It just looks good? Crazy...help him improve it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:32 pm 
Little Foot
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Chumly wrote:
Thanks for understanding. When you post work openly, we all open our ideas and builds to scrutiny.

I really thought that was a Solenoid head, no lie. Why is there ports on the side plugged then? Experiment early on to side feed the block?

I have to say your first flaw was in using Ai and not Cu. It's just really hard to work with, while Cu is like working with lead...and what real fisherman hasn't made their own sinks with a burner? Cu just has much better properties all around. My last block was formed from Cu I ripped from the yard and garage. It's expensive to buy, but it makes that PVC retro in the house seem really appealing!

Yellow brass has some great features, and is really nice to use when using water. It's harder (IMO) to pour than copper and keep it's basic function the same. Brass is something I'd buy and machine more than pour it. Copper is nice, like lead, because you pull the impurities off the skim. Brass, you don't want to pull that off.

Thanks. Now what do you really think? It just looks good? Crazy...help him improve it.


Unfortunately I don't have any other material around worth melting.

The Aluminum I poured was done serveral times. There are Very few impurities in it actually. And I also like to add that I used more than one type of aluminum.

The block is Very dense. It pulls heat pretty well even to my own surprise.
Yes I've poured plenty of lead. Lil bit of a fisherman myself.
I do have an 18 hour run done on a quad @ 1.38 volts and 2.8ghz (9850). The temp was @ 48c at the end of the time interval.

A Single Pass power steering cooler was the Rad. Really not much of a Rad but it does have a 90mm Tornado on it. (not that the fan matters).

The holes in the Side are straight through then plugged. The liquid flows 3/16 (0.1875 or 4.7625mm) from the IHS plate as well. I won't count any material from hours of rough, Med to fine lapping. It wasn't measured after the Lap.

But actually if I wanted use the correct ot proper material, It would cost a leg. Silver. That is my goal someday. In the mean time Aluminum is all I have to work with because the price is Free.

Uhg. I feel I did fail just because of the material. But the results where pretty well... not to bad?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:07 am 
SON OF A GUN
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It was a good exercise. Definitely worth doing because the next one you do will be better, etc.

Silver? I would shoot for Gold or Tungsten if you want the "BEST" cooling. You want the smallest specific heat value you can get I would think.

Aluminum is close to 1 and Copper is 40% of that. Gold/Tungsten are closer to 15-20%. So if you have to hunks of Al and Cu that are the same mass (say, 500g) then it would take 60% less energy to transfer the same temperature delta to the Copper as it would the Aluminum. 80-85% less for Gold/Tungsten. The less energy required the faster the heat transfer.

Then your water can take it away. My water cooling theory isn't great but if you had a sufficiently fast pump, the higher specific heat of water wouldn't be too much of an issue (the more heat you add, the harder it is to add more heat.)

Table of specific heats: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HB ... sphtt.html

specific heat calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HB ... /spht.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:49 pm 
Little Foot
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CrashTECH wrote:
It was a good exercise. Definitely worth doing because the next one you do will be better, etc.

Silver? I would shoot for Gold or Tungsten if you want the "BEST" cooling. You want the smallest specific heat value you can get I would think.

Aluminum is close to 1 and Copper is 40% of that. Gold/Tungsten are closer to 15-20%. So if you have to hunks of Al and Cu that are the same mass (say, 500g) then it would take 60% less energy to transfer the same temperature delta to the Copper as it would the Aluminum. 80-85% less for Gold/Tungsten. The less energy required the faster the heat transfer.

Then your water can take it away. My water cooling theory isn't great but if you had a sufficiently fast pump, the higher specific heat of water wouldn't be too much of an issue (the more heat you add, the harder it is to add more heat.)

Table of specific heats: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HB ... sphtt.html

specific heat calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HB ... /spht.html


Oh man that's great stuff! And here I always thought to try and get the liquid as close to the heat source as possible.

I guess I have to find some better materials eh?

And thank you very much for the charts. I have saved the links ;)


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 Post subject: The Quad 18 hour load pic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:12 am 
Little Foot
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Here's the screen shot of the Phenom 9850 under load for 18+ hours 2.8ghz @ 1.38 volts. Hardly an overclock, but that's not the point. When I have the mounting and time all together I will run this block at home on a Phenom II 940 x4. It's currently under a ThermalTake block. I plan to do some load temp tests with the current block then swap it out with the one I made then compare the temps at a later date.

Is it worth it?


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:23 pm 
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Pocket tanks deluxe is fun game. :) :P

Nice block. Gold is a good idea, if you have a deep pocket.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:53 pm 
Little Foot
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whelderwheels613 wrote:
Pocket tanks deluxe is fun game. :) :P

Nice block. Gold is a good idea, if you have a deep pocket.


Not that deep lol.

But I can accept donations at paypal lol.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:42 pm 
Boy in Black
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Seems kind of warm at 48/56. Is that normal for a Phenom?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:05 pm 
Little Foot
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Chumly wrote:
Seems kind of warm at 48/56. Is that normal for a Phenom?


Well considering the Rad is garbage and the pump is for out door fountains....I'd say that temp looks normal yes. I just haven't had the chance to get it in a real time PC environment. With real Rads and Pumps and game play and normal every day usage.

The Phenom 9850BE on a stock cooler at stock speeds and volts will run Hotter.

And to be honest.... I think this block will cool better than my thermal take. Simply because the passage is 17/64ths of an inch all the way through. I don't really dig my thermal take block very much.

I've seen really nice blocks I could purchase. If I can make one virtually for free and get similar temps, I am satisfied.

Now for the Phenom II 940 I have, It runs cooler. Strange how the 9850 and 940 are the same TDP and the 45nm actually produces less heat under load and at idle. On top of that Chumly, The 9850 @ 2.5gh, stock volts is 1.3v. The Phenom II 940, when I placed it in the first time on default bios, the stock voltage was set to 1.35 volts@ 3ghz.

I blame the core temps on the IHS plate. It is an untouched IHS plate. I should say was. I sold the 9850 a couple of weeks ago.

If this thread stays up long enough, I'd really like to put some pics of this on my PC at home for a more real day to day test. First I need some more tubing, a new pump, a couple of suggested things if I have cash for it all, and most of all time. I'm always pressed between Work, Wife and Kids. But they are worth it ;).


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