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 Post subject: Mod a non-modular PSU
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:57 am 
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I recent 'discussion' about modular vs. non-modular PSU's led me to an interesting thought.

Me, I'm not a fan of modular PSU's. I think it's a bad fad (like Zip drives) that should just go away. So, I thought of a way to have my beloved hard-wired cables and please those who just can't stand to tuck away a few strings of sleeved cabling.

After running all the wires that you actually need in a build:
1) cut off the wires/connectors that you don't need.
2) use your favorite brand of tool dip to protect and seal the ends of the wires.

Most manufacturers make this stuff in a variety of colors, so you can match the cable ends to color themes in your case.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Yet another example of how effective PC Power & Coolings marketing has been. While this mantra about modular cabling may have had some merit five years ago, it's simply not an issue with the high quality PSU's of today.

P.S., the world isn't flat either.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:31 am 
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What happens if you cut off a cable then need it down the road?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:42 am 
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soldering iron, colored heat shrink tubing :)

-or-

the perfect excuse for new, bigger, quieter $$$ PSU and do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Mod a non-modular PSU
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:07 pm 
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bbies1973 wrote:
Me, I'm not a fan of modular PSU's. I think it's a bad fad (like Zip drives) that should just go away.


What's not to like?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:11 pm 
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I don't know about cutting off unused leads, but I often shorten/lengthen leads when I'm wiring up my rigs.

Most cases I've worked in have a narrow (usually around 1/2") gap above the PSU or beside it that you can stuff the unused leads in.. Cutting them off just seems destructive, espeically if you plan on adding components down the road.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Let's consider your opinion to the matter, "Hey, lets make a modular PSU by cutting of the unused cables."
6 months later you get this, "Hey, my new graphics card arrived. Let's plug it in with the extra PCIe power cord..."
Looks like that new graphics card of your won't be working after all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:37 am 
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I dont see whats wrong with being able to remove likely to be unused cables. It's not like your dvd burner needs the tightest of power regulation to run right. As long as the ATX and supplementary power cables are hardwired I don't see a problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:14 pm 
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I think what most of this comes down to is a matter of personal opinion or more personal taste. Personally I find it easy to simply harness and tie off unused power cables from the PSU. They can be kept neatly out of the way and if future need arises they are there.

However, I can see where some people may want to simply cut the unused lines and maybe heat shrink tip them. Then if a future need arises replace the ends and connectors.

Overall it is likely a matter of what works best for the individual doing the work (mod).

Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Mod a non-modular PSU
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:11 pm 
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cb.monk wrote:
bbies1973 wrote:
Me, I'm not a fan of modular PSU's. I think it's a bad fad (like Zip drives) that should just go away.


What's not to like?


The connectors that connect the cable to the PSU actually resist electricity so there are times that not enough power will flow to the device.


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 Post subject: Re: Mod a non-modular PSU
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Caskey.100 wrote:

The connectors that connect the cable to the PSU actually resist electricity so there are times that not enough power will flow to the device.


Bullshit. Prove it with any quality modular PSU.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Caskey.100 Wtote:
Quote:
The connectors that connect the cable to the PSU actually resist electricity so there are times that not enough power will flow to the device.


That was a claim early on by the lobby against the modular PSU concept and pretty much perpetuated by those who didn't offer them.

Actually though true to a degree in theory it is pretty much bullshit. All wires offer resistance to the flow of electrons, and yes, the modular connectors do offer more resistance, however, no more than any connector including those that connect to the various devices.

In reality the amount of additional resistance amounts to nothing to be concerned about. The bottom line from an engineering standpoint is the slight addition in the overall line resistance will never come in light of the intended use. The true voltage drop (loss) accross a connector is not enough to worry about even when the connector is under a full load of the connector's rated current.

Ron


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:41 pm 
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As a journeyman electrician, I agree 100% with Reloadron, but if you doubt it, spend $50 and get yourself a digital multimeter and see. You still get all 12V not 11, and 1.3V not 1.29. Copper has a resistivity of 17 nano ohms per meter. How many miles from your psu is your board?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:27 pm 
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If this were truly the case, keep in mind that every thing you plug your PSU into is modular as well. Sata power connectors, molex connectors, etc. If this were truly the case, you'd have to buy everything hard wired together, and there wouldn't be molex to 6 pin power adapters either. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Quakindude wrote:
Yet another example of how effective PC Power & Coolings marketing has been. While this mantra about modular cabling may have had some merit five years ago, it's simply not an issue with the high quality PSU's of today.

P.S., the world isn't flat either.


PC Power and Cooling are the best PSU's out there, I ain't saying any different. However, they still try to sell a product. And their marketing has been tremendously effective to a degree. But those who care to do the research will see that A. There's not enough juice going through these things to worry about the minimal additional connectors in place for the short length the wires run, and B. The real problems most of the initial modular units suffered from were cheap assed connectors that didn't remain connected or sorry assed soldering on the PCB where the wires went into the PSU.

Which is why I said any Quality Modular PSU will not have issues. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Actually this all gets into some rather boring stuff but it goes a little like this. All materials (including copper) have a resistivity. That resistivity is just a base number not to be confused with resistance as measured in ohms. However, knowing the resistivity for a given wire alloy and the size (diameter or cross sectional area) of the wire with the length we can calculate the resistance in Ohms. Resistivity is stated in a unit called the Rho.

Things look like this:

Resistance (Ohms) = Rho * Length / Area

Now the resistivity or Rho of copper (as twisted spark points out) is about 17 nano Rho or .000000017 Rho which is a pretty damn small number. Knowing the Rho of the material in a conductor we can calculate the resistance.

If that is not boring enough, we get into connectors placed in the line. Each connector meaning every single little pin and socket along the way add resistance to the line. All connectors have specifications that state their resistance. This is all the weird stuff that is considered when designing and building electrical/electronic circuits. The resistance accross most connectors is stated generally in milli (10^-3) Ohms.

Looking at a circuit and the current flow in a circuit we can calculate the voltage drop due to resistance pretty easily. This is commonly called an IR drop or actually it is an I * R drop because if we multiply the Current (I) * the Resistance (R) we get the Voltage drop.

The point here is that in circuits like we are looking at this drop is negligible. This goes back to what I posted earlier. The drop or loss even though it exist will never come in light of the design application.

Now what pisses me off (you were wondering where this was going right?) is how as I mentioned some PSU makers hyping the non-modular concept used this very basic law of physics to discredit the modular PSU design. They were quick to0 stress the connectors caused loss but failed miserably to actually tell the truth. The fact is a few connectors will not matter.

The bulk of the PSU market is not home enthusiast. The bulk of the market is everyday business machines. The market for higher end PSUs is actually pretty small. Thus it has become extremely competative and just about every conceivable gimmic and ploy is used in marketing. That pisses me off.

<EDIT> Oh yeah, to further confuse things the Rho of any alloy changes with temperature so therefore the actual resistance changes with temperature. However, fow all practical purposes, not enough to matter. :) </EDIT>

Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Mod a non-modular PSU
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:14 am 
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Caskey.100 wrote:

The connectors that connect the cable to the PSU actually resist electricity so there are times that not enough power will flow to the device.


This is True and False.

PCP&C spread a mantra about a number of things. Most of these were true in Theory, but not in practice. Modular connectors will add a bit of resistance, but not so much as to effect practical performance in a QUALITY PSU.

The key is QUALITY. PCP&C made/make quality units, but there are many other quality PSU makers out there that are as good - or better.

EDIT - Seems Ron beat me to it - 5 days ago. That's what I get for not reading the entire thread.


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