Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:29 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Does anyone know where to buy parts to build USB hubs ?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:24 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
I am seeking info on designs and schematics and ideas and places to buy parts for building a USB hub.

I want to get creative, and I know alot of MAX PC readership is involved with Case Modding, etc., and I hope I put this in the right place.

My idea is to build a unit with a massive number of ports, and to enable various *.wav files to be played when devices are plugged in, etc.

I want to know more about working with enclosures, USB power sources, and LED layouts.

I have done lots of searches on the net, and don't really know where to go or what, exactly, to search for.

I am not looking to save money over buying an existing, warranted hub as much as just wanting a new hobby.

Does someone have some time ? Thanks in advance. :D


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:58 am 
Coppermine
Coppermine
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 732
Though you may get a better response if this is posted in the Modder's Workshop area, I'll still throw something out there.

I can't suggest anything on the internet. But from my experience, I have found that if you do a bit of digging, and are just a tad lucky, you may find a local hobby shop or electronics supply that can help with your needs. I myself was trying to put togeather something that was custome and I found the websites that cater to this sort of thing seemed well.....hackmead? Sorry I can't be of anymore help than that. Good luck.

You will likely need to do a bit of programming to beable to have your device play custome .wav files.

OH! Remember to check your voltages! :idea:


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:10 pm 
Klamath
Klamath

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:51 am
Posts: 212
buy a usb hub and take it apart to figure out layout, etc. Find one with features that you want like the LEDs then just build one on a board thats similar in design to the dissected one.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Darn
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:51 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
I was hoping that someone might know of a place that sells USB boards without enclosures, etc.

I mean... is it wacky to want to assemble your own ideas for a USB hub ? The internet's reaction seems to be...

GOOD LUCK, DUDE ! What are you, some kind of weirdo ?
Or
It is cheaper to buy than to build.

My idea is not yet marketed. I am a hobbyist. This is not all about price. This is about DIY.

--tclark118


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:13 am 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
You picked yourself one hell of a project. Most USB hubs consist of a single chip with a few supporting components like the clock crystal and a few other parts.

Now if you want to pursue this I would approach it this way. Find the chips I mentioned. Here is an example:

http://KILLMEPLEASE.com/electron ... 070hub.pdf

That is a 7 port!

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod ... oc1137.pdf

http://bdml.stanford.edu/twiki/pub/Main ... 1__hub.pdf

The others are 4 port. The chips could possibly be cascaded? I don't know but looks good in theory?

Note the chip manufacturers and go to their websites. Sometimes they offer kits for their chips. Unless you can find kits then things get difficult as you are making your own boards.

Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: USB Hubs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:56 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
Wow Reloadron !

Everything about your post is awesome, save for the fact that the USB version is only v1.1..

Thanks, but I don't know how much help that will be. I am looking at "Hi-Speed" 2.0 USB, and assembling something with as great a transfer speed as possible.

The schematics are now downloaded to my computer (thanks again !)

Um... what I am really searching for the hardest is a cascading design. I would like to have a high number of USB ports, 24 or more, etc. I want to stack them in a CUBE fashion with a customizable enclosure. I know this sounds a little nuts, but I have seen it done, and just want to learn HOW it was done.

Okay... here is a comparison. Think of the All Spark USB hub, commonly available online, but with a much higher number of USB ports.

I never knew how much torture I was going to put myself through just looking at this from an assembly point of view. I just would like some resources for enclosures, LED's, USB power supply cards, etc.

Fantastic journey, though. In the past two months, I have seen more WHACKED OUT USB devices that have given me ideas than I can mention here !!!!!!!!!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:56 am 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Another option would be to buy a cheap USB version 2.0 hub and do a surgery on it to inspect the guts with a focus on the ball game chip in there. My guess is that only a handful of manufacturers make these chips. Then back to Google with a manufacturers name. That may bring some better results as to more current chips. Also a Google of "USB controller chips" brings up numerous hits.

The needed 5 Volt power for the powered hub is the least of the problems right now.

I am not sure about cascading either as the world of USB communications is not my forte. :lol:

This chip affords 10 I/O lines. Maybe give them a call?

http://www.engineering-spirit.nl/Producten/MultiIOUSB/

Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Hey... I think I found something here... from the...
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:03 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
Reloadron, thanks for all of your insight and help. It will NOT be forgotten. I mean it, man.

Hey... I think I found something here... from the...original inspiration for the project.

This guy did exactly the same thing I want to do. Now, I can finally make the enclosure however I would like to, although I should really like to have an empty cube enclosure to work with.

Black or revisable color of plastic or non-conductive metal material would be nice.


I do wonder why the guy on this project suggests removing voltage regulators ?

http://www.cad.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~shun/etc/20061011_usb_hub_e.html

Okay, it's been 20 years almost since I took Electronics in high school, and I understand that the risk of USB electrical shock IS low, but.... Hmmm

I guess that having THAT many USB ports just says that old saying: "He who dies with the GEEKIEST toys wins."

I think I now understand why there is such little material about these kinds of things on the Net.

There really is no PRACTICAL need for most people for more than about 4, 7, or 13 devices at any ONE time... HEHE.

Warning: This is a GEEK project. You have been warned.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:39 am 
Million Club - 5 Plus
Million Club - 5 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:35 am
Posts: 1998
looks like used a dedicated regulated 5v supply (bottom of the unit), so no need for the on board regulators. they would just add heat and, if a separate regulated 5v supply is used, the on board regulators might not work as regulators typically need a bit more voltage than what they are regulating to as they have an inherent voltage drop.

31 ports at max draw (500 ma per port) would need a 15.5 amps @ 5v power supply (80-100ish watts, allowing for circuit overhead), wonder if his was that beefy?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:55 pm 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
First I agree with CharBroiled in that the individual power supplies for each USB hub card were not needed, thus removed. The onboard voltage regulators were also removed as they were not necessary.

For what it worth as to USB specifications regarding current:

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.htm

A USB port "should" be able to supply 500 mA (0.5 Amp) but unless someone plans to use a USB port to charge batteries that much current is seldom required per port. Trying to fit a 5 Volt power supply in there capable of providing 15.5 Amps will be quite the trick, even for a switching PSU.

The PSU on the bottom looks to be a small switching type PSU, I seriously doubt it delivers 15 Amps.

What the author did was go out and buy 7 inexpensive USB hubs and conviently stacked them up. That was a wise move as the problem of board design and individual chips purchase was eliminated. Then using some spacers he simply stacked the boards placing a small 5 Volt switching PSU on the bottom. Really a pretty slick way to go. Think about all those plugs and sockets! :lol:

Additionally for 7 port hubs USB 2.0 you are looking at between $20 to $30 each. I would not get the cheapest. I would read the reviews! Overall you are looking at about maybe $200 depending on what you can get a cheap switching 5 Volt PSU for with a respectable output.

Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:53 pm 
Million Club - 5 Plus
Million Club - 5 Plus
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:35 am
Posts: 1998
Reloadron wrote:
A USB port "should" be able to supply 500 mA (0.5 Amp) but unless someone plans to use a USB port to charge batteries that much current is seldom required per port. Trying to fit a 5 Volt power supply in there capable of providing 15.5 Amps will be quite the trick, even for a switching PSU.

The PSU on the bottom looks to be a small switching type PSU, I seriously doubt it delivers 15 Amps.


I agree, I doubt it could supply 15 amps.

he built it so he knows its current capacity and wont overload it, but I cant help but think about "worse case" situations. if that were for sale to the general public sooner or later some guy would plug in 31 USB powered hard drives (my 2.5" portable states it needs the full 500 ma, and my USB EVDO modem actually needs two ports at 500 ma each to reach its full rated output power) or something and complain it couldnt power them all at once :lol:

pretty nice though, even if I never planned to use all those ports it would be cool to have it sitting on my desk as a conversation piece.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:47 pm 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
CharBroiled wrote:
Reloadron wrote:
A USB port "should" be able to supply 500 mA (0.5 Amp) but unless someone plans to use a USB port to charge batteries that much current is seldom required per port. Trying to fit a 5 Volt power supply in there capable of providing 15.5 Amps will be quite the trick, even for a switching PSU.

The PSU on the bottom looks to be a small switching type PSU, I seriously doubt it delivers 15 Amps.


I agree, I doubt it could supply 15 amps.

he built it so he knows its current capacity and wont overload it, but I cant help but think about "worse case" situations. if that were for sale to the general public sooner or later some guy would plug in 31 USB powered hard drives (my 2.5" portable states it needs the full 500 ma, and my USB EVDO modem actually needs two ports at 500 ma each to reach its full rated output power) or something and complain it couldnt power them all at once :lol:

pretty nice though, even if I never planned to use all those ports it would be cool to have it sitting on my desk as a conversation piece.


OK, we can kick up the size and cost and actually fit a 5 Volt 15 Amp PSU in there for about $100. Cosel USA makes a few that would work. Would also likely need some fan cooling too.
:lol:
We can just first class the hell out of this.
Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:10 pm 
Team Creamsicles
Team Creamsicles
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:06 pm
Posts: 3702
Location: Pennsylvania
Give it a hemi!


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:25 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
A Hemi ?

Do you mean hemisphere, or globe-shaped likeness ?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:08 pm 
Team Creamsicles
Team Creamsicles
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:06 pm
Posts: 3702
Location: Pennsylvania
Hemi, as in the hemi engine. yeah it was a joke :P

http://www.hemi.com


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:55 pm 
Team Member Top 500
Team Member Top 500
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 2033
Don't those regular old 4-pin molex psu connectors supply 12v as well as 5v? Couldn't you technically run one or two (depending on the amperage of the rail) to your hub?

I mean, you have a perfectly good power supply inside your computer... why not use that?

edit:
Yeah, it's the red wire.

Ron seems to have covered the IC part; as far as the actual connectors, www.mouser.com has some great usb solder connectors. I ordered and am using a few of them myself in a KVM, well, KM, switch.

type a p#: 87520-0010BLF
type b p#: 61729-1010BLF
both of those are made by FCI


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:08 am 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Snatching 5 Volts from a PSU would work but I think the intent was to build a stand alone contraption with an internal power supply powered off the wall outlet.

The OP hasn't been back in awhile so I guess he is pondering a parts list. :lol:

Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:33 am 
Team Member Top 1000
Team Member Top 1000
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:53 pm
Posts: 230
Location: Canada
that is a seriously neat looking project!! Hell, I barely fill a 4 port hub so building one of these monsters is not on my schedule! :lol:


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:51 pm 
Team Member [Top 500]*
Team Member [Top 500]*
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 8720
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
JoetheMobster wrote:
that is a seriously neat looking project!! Hell, I barely fill a 4 port hub so building one of these monsters is not on my schedule! :lol:


I keep looking at all the existing unused ports I have, what the hell would I do with 30 or so more? :lol:

Ron


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:00 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm
Posts: 10
Gees... I guess I opened a barrel of monkeys with this idea.

I also heard somewhere recently that USB 3.0 is on its way. Yes, that is not a typo. THREE POINT OOOOOOOOO.

Anyhow, I wonder if I build this now if I will be able to mix 3.0 ports later on ?

HEHE... be afraid.... be VERY afraid....

--tclark118


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group