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 Post subject: RAM,HDD and extra fans?
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:10 am 
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Are ram coolers hdds coolers and a extra 120mm rear fan needed in my rig or is it just overkill?

specs:
Q6600@2.4
4gb kingston ram(non heet sink)
8800gt oc @700
3 seagate HDDS
dfi blood iron p35 mobo
el diablo case with 240mm front fan 360mm side fan

http://images.google.com/images?sourcei ... a=N&tab=wi

it has room for a 120mm rear fan also


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:17 pm 
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I'd definitely buy a rear case fan. To my knowledge, that case doesn't come with a rear fan. This causes problems because the air isn't getting expelled. The huge fans are just blowing air into the case and recirculating the hot air. The hot air has no way to leave.

As for the HDD and Ram cooler, it depends on your situation. As long as you have some airflow in your case they aren't necessary. Seeing as you already have a huge 250mm intake in the front, I'd advise you NOT to buy them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:44 pm 
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thanks m8 ill be geting the rear fan 2day


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:47 am 
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Brendan wrote:
I'd definitely buy a rear case fan. To my knowledge, that case doesn't come with a rear fan. This causes problems because the air isn't getting expelled. The huge fans are just blowing air into the case and recirculating the hot air. The hot air has no way to leave.

As for the HDD and Ram cooler, it depends on your situation. As long as you have some airflow in your case they aren't necessary. Seeing as you already have a huge 250mm intake in the front, I'd advise you NOT to buy them.

I sure don't want to meet who told you that. If air is pushed into an enclosure, lets say a box, then there has to be an exit. No air would come in if there was no exit for the air too leave. The fans on the case you showed us are intake fans. these fans push air into the case. The air will then leave somewhere else, i don't know where, but is has to if there is air entering the case.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:44 pm 
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whelderwheels613 wrote:
I sure don't want to meet who told you that. If air is pushed into an enclosure, lets say a box, then there has to be an exit. No air would come in if there was no exit for the air too leave. The fans on the case you showed us are intake fans. these fans push air into the case. The air will then leave somewhere else, i don't know where, but is has to if there is air entering the case.


whelder is right, if air goes in it goes out. in that case the air would just exit through the rear hole the rear fan would normally mount to (even if that fans not there, its still a way for air to leave), plus whatever the power supply fan exhausts.

a rear fan will slightly improve air flow through the case, but even with no rear fan the airpath will be exactly the same, just a bit less airflow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:49 pm 
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ty i myself a rear fan and my temps droped like 4-5c worth $15 its very hot in the country i live in around 35-40 all summer so it gets very hot do you think it would be a good idea to get ram and hdd fans they are cheap so it eont break my bank.also im geting worrid becuas my n-brige can go upto 54c year thats hot!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:54 am 
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if you dont mind spending the coin they certainly cant hurt, but they may not really help as much as you might think, it all depends on how well the rest of the case breathes.

if its that hot where you are the best bet (especially for your northbridge and RAM temps) is make sure your cables etc are routed so that air can hit the areas you want to cool. rearrange cards (if you can) so the side fan can directly hit the northbridge and memory.

does that case have a front fan that blows directly into the drive cage? if it does just make sure your drives are right in front of it and its got good air flow (IOW space them out and dont pack cables around them).

also, while conventional wisdom dictates that front/side fans should blow in and top/rear fans should blow out, sometimes cards and cables can create turbulence and dead zones. try having your side fan blow out instead of in and see if it makes a difference. experiment!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Having more input than output will actually create slight pressure differences. The best setup is to have more output than input, and as a rule of thumb, the fans should be drawing air up diagonally at it flows through the case. Start at the bottom of the front with an input, and then vent out of the upper section of the back. Having a negative pressure differential helps to keep dust from settling, whereas a high pressure zone (eg, more input than output) forces the air to become slower moving and stagnant, and allows the dust in the air to drop out more readily. If that case has space for a fan on the top of the panel, make sure you have it vented, blowing out. As you most likely know, hot air rises, so having a fan there helps to vent out the air that's going to naturally want to rise to the top of the case.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:00 pm 
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like you sed i have the hdds spred out and i have clean up my wires and no i have no space on the top for a fan i was thinking fo changing the 360mm fan for 4 120mm fans would this help at all?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:07 pm 
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A quick googling shows that the 360mm fan puts through about 220 CFM, whereas the 120mm ones put though around 80 CFM. 4x80 puts you at 320 CFM. You'll get a higher airflow, but you'll definitely have to deal with a lot more sound and case vibration. Plus you'll have to daisy chain the power connectors or find some way to power the multiple fans. You'd be fine going with the 360mm, it's quieter and it'll put through all the air you really need. It may be an option someday down the road, when that big fan dies, and you can't find a replacement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:11 pm 
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ok thanks i have been looking around allready for a new 360mm just for backup whene this one dies but have had no luke finding one :(


Last edited by killerxx7 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:12 pm 
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They're damn near impossible to find. Your best bet is to check with the case's manufacturer. They may have a replacement part you can order, or they may even be willing to just give you one. No harm in asking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:14 pm 
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i think ill try that ty


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:17 am 
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CharBroiled wrote:
whelder is right, if air goes in it goes out. in that case the air would just exit through the rear hole the rear fan would normally mount to (even if that fans not there, its still a way for air to leave), plus whatever the power supply fan exhausts.
Yes, the air will still leave, but the question is where. around the seams of the side panel, holes in the front bezel, etc. Also, if you aren't balancing push to pull, then you have to factor in the air pressure ratings on your fans. As the pressure in the case increases, that same fan will push (or pull) less volume. As an example, see how this article compares the use of a single fan and a push-pull, two fan set up. The two fans in this case aren't moving any more air, just balancing the pressures, because one is pull out what the other is pushing in. Now, admittedly, it may be a small difference (1degree in most cases), but it is a difference.

CharBroiled wrote:
a rear fan will slightly improve air flow through the case, but even with no rear fan the airpath will be exactly the same, just a bit less airflow.
Again, I'll disagree. Without the exhaust fan, the pressurized air is going to find whatever way out that it can. That might be cooler air escaping the front of the case, or around seams in the case, etc. However, a rear exhaust fan is going to directly pull out the hot air coming off of the CPU cooler.

Maybe, I'll remove my rear exhaust on one of my systems and check the CPU temp difference, as well as ambient case temp ...?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:59 am 
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iv have seeen a good inprovment after i added the exuast fan it realy does work! i can feal the hot air comeing out of the case but my NB still gets in the mid 50s if i 4get 2 turn my aircon on in my room!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:50 am 
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bbies1973 wrote:
CharBroiled wrote:
whelder is right, if air goes in it goes out. in that case the air would just exit through the rear hole the rear fan would normally mount to (even if that fans not there, its still a way for air to leave), plus whatever the power supply fan exhausts.
Yes, the air will still leave, but the question is where. around the seams of the side panel, holes in the front bezel, etc. Also, if you aren't balancing push to pull, then you have to factor in the air pressure ratings on your fans. As the pressure in the case increases, that same fan will push (or pull) less volume. As an example, see how this article compares the use of a single fan and a push-pull, two fan set up. The two fans in this case aren't moving any more air, just balancing the pressures, because one is pull out what the other is pushing in. Now, admittedly, it may be a small difference (1degree in most cases), but it is a difference.

CharBroiled wrote:
a rear fan will slightly improve air flow through the case, but even with no rear fan the airpath will be exactly the same, just a bit less airflow.
Again, I'll disagree. Without the exhaust fan, the pressurized air is going to find whatever way out that it can. That might be cooler air escaping the front of the case, or around seams in the case, etc. However, a rear exhaust fan is going to directly pull out the hot air coming off of the CPU cooler.

Maybe, I'll remove my rear exhaust on one of my systems and check the CPU temp difference, as well as ambient case temp ...?


Id be interested in your result if you do this. Ive played with fans a lot. my best CPU temps was 2 rear fans blowing in, side, top and front out. but my mobo chipset and HD temps were higher. trade offs..

my point is air, like water or electricity, will take the path of least resistance. since theres a big hole there already, most of the air will exit that hole naturally. a little will exit other ways but its more or less insignificant.

also, to Shinekaze, I have to disagree, I prefer positive pressure as you can control the air going in (like filter it). with negative pressure air (and dust) is drawn in through drive bezels, USB/audio connectors, around the I/O shield etc. dust builds up and it looks nasty, as well as possibly causing problems. with positive pressure you dont get any of that. as for dust settling. just prevent it from getting in there in the 1st place, filter the intakes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:13 am 
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CharBroiled wrote:
.... I prefer positive pressure as you can control the air going in (like filter it). with negative pressure air (and dust) is drawn in through drive bezels, USB/audio connectors, around the I/O shield etc. dust builds up and it looks nasty, as well as possibly causing problems. with positive pressure you dont get any of that. as for dust settling. just prevent it from getting in there in the 1st place, filter the intakes.
I would be inclined to agree with positive over negative pressure. I live in a very dry and dusty environment. I keep my intakes filtered and my cases only slightly on the positive side. So minute, in fact, that I have to hang a thin, small piece of tissue over a vent to tell that it is in fact positive.

Anyway, on to the test. I measured temps in my older Prescott P4 3.2 GHz system. I chose this one over my shiny new Q9300, because it has an older (less vented) case, stock CPU cooler, and the CPU is rated at 103W as opposed to 95W on the Q9300.

So, after running without the rear exhaust fan for thirty minutes, the case temp (as measured by a probe that lays loosely in the case, and displayed on the front lcd) rose by 1.2 degrees Celsius. The MoBo temp went up by four degrees, and the CPU temp was unaffected. My best guess for the CPU keeping it's cool, is that the side intake fan blows fresh outside air directly into the CPU cooler's fan.

One other thing that I did notice, is that by removing one exhaust fan, the speed of one of the two intake fans dropped by around 40 rpm. This can only be due to the back pressure. This may sound surprising, but we're talking about fans that are rated for less than 3 millimeters of water. That is such an extremely low measurement, that in all my experience I have never seen anything else measured in millimeters. It's commonly inches. To put it into perspective, a church organ typically runs at 4 inches. One PSI = 27.5 inches. So these little fans really don't do well with back pressure.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:43 pm 
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well i have put a 1200mm turbine fan on the rear and it seams to have done the trick but i live in a very dusty country and i have to blow the dust of my mobo and case evey 2 days and i can smell the buring dust from all my pcs and monitors!eny way im going to get a pci gpu fan i used 2 have one but it broke it realy kept the gpu mutch cooler


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:22 am 
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whelderwheels613 wrote:
I sure don't want to meet who told you that. If air is pushed into an enclosure, lets say a box, then there has to be an exit. No air would come in if there was no exit for the air too leave. The fans on the case you showed us are intake fans. these fans push air into the case. The air will then leave somewhere else, i don't know where, but is has to if there is air entering the case.
Not entirely true. You can lay a fan on it's face, flat on the desk, and have no exit...no flow. It's just slipping. This is just like overheating cars getting fixed by putting shrouds on.

Pushing into case isn't good because it's easier to slip. It not only has to try and push air, there's nothing saying it has to come out. Some cheaper cases have such nasty little fan grills, this is common. Now if you pull out a case, most of that is negated. This is where the "what goes in, must come out" fits more readily. If you pull only out of the back, then the air is really already out and can't slip back in easily, if at all. This is where you get into the air coming from somewhere and anywhere. But pushing air in may not go in at all. Might just make a little easy bake oven with only pushers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:00 am 
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bbies1973 wrote:

Anyway, on to the test. I measured temps in my older Prescott P4 3.2 GHz system. I chose this one over my shiny new Q9300, because it has an older (less vented) case, stock CPU cooler, and the CPU is rated at 103W as opposed to 95W on the Q9300.

So, after running without the rear exhaust fan for thirty minutes, the case temp (as measured by a probe that lays loosely in the case, and displayed on the front lcd) rose by 1.2 degrees Celsius. The MoBo temp went up by four degrees, and the CPU temp was unaffected. My best guess for the CPU keeping it's cool, is that the side intake fan blows fresh outside air directly into the CPU cooler's fan.

One other thing that I did notice, is that by removing one exhaust fan, the speed of one of the two intake fans dropped by around 40 rpm. This can only be due to the back pressure. This may sound surprising, but we're talking about fans that are rated for less than 3 millimeters of water. That is such an extremely low measurement, that in all my experience I have never seen anything else measured in millimeters. It's commonly inches. To put it into perspective, a church organ typically runs at 4 inches. One PSI = 27.5 inches. So these little fans really don't do well with back pressure.


its interesting that the mobo went up by 4 degrees. seems a lot.

when I did my tests I also had those thermal probes (two LCD readouts that mount in a 5.25 bay, stick the leads wherever you want, mine were on the memory and vid card) and my case was an Antec 1080 AMG server case - very big and open (22h x 18d x 8w inches, 2x80 front, 2x80 rear, 1x80 side panel plus 2x80 in the PS). I wonder if the large open case made a difference. air had a pretty straight shot from front to rear.

I wonder if, without the rear fan, the side and fronts create turbulence and creates a "dead spot" near your northbridge in your setup. the rear fan would create a different pattern of turbulance.

Im not surprised the front fans dropped a bit, the rear fans help lower the pressure so the fronts get an easier job of pushing air into the case.

my LCD temp probe batteries have since died, Ill have to get new batteries and play some more.


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