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 Post subject: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Bought a 750 Ti. Tried it on an old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP). It didn't work, I gave up and got the card to work in another machine (Dell Vostro 200). It would be more convenient for me to use it in the Asus mobo, so I thought I'd re-visit. Yeah, yeah, it's a bunch of crappy old hardware and it needs replaced, until that happens, though, I'm curious if there's a way to resolve the issue.
If the card is the only one installed the image is displayed with distortions (odd coloration, low resolution) and although the drivers install with no error, the device still doesn't function properly -Device Manager error Code 35
Spoiler: show
Your computer's system firmware does not include enough information to properly configure and use this device. To use this device, contact your computer manufacturer to obtain a firmware or BIOS update. (Code 35)
Cause
The Multiprocessor System (MPS) table, which stores the resource assignments for the BIOS, is missing an entry for your device and must be updated.

Recommended resolution
Contact the system vendor to update the BIOS.


If installed in the second x16 slot with another card in the primary Device Manager shows error Code 12
Spoiler: show
This device cannot find enough free resources that it can use. If you want to use this device, you will need to disable one of the other devices on this system. (Code 12)
Cause
This error can occur if two devices that are installed on your computer have been assigned the same I/O ports, the same interrupt, or the same Direct Memory Access channel (either by the BIOS, the operating system, or both). This error message can also appear if the BIOS did not allocate enough resources to the device.

Recommended resolution
You can use the Troubleshooting Wizard in Device Manager to determine where the conflict is, and then disable the conflicting device.

The board worked with a 9600GSO and GT430 installed simultaneously. I updated to latest BIOS, went through the BIOS options and disabled everything that looked like it might use up resources, reduced the bandwidth of the secondary PCIe slot to x1, removed all but 1 GB of RAM (I suppose I could try using a 512MB DIMM to squeeze out a little more, but even if it had worked with 1 GB what's the point?), disconnected all but 1 500GB HDD, disconnected both ODD, disconnected all other add-in cards (PCI WiFi). Hmm, I think that's it, I tried stripping it down as much as possible.
The card has 2GB of GDDR5. The board I think is PCIe 1.0, the card 3.0, I thought it was all backwards compatible...
So, I guess what I'm asking is, "Is there any way in Hell for this to work"?
I didn't grow up building these things so I never had to manually set IRQs or anything like that. Where do I go (Windows 7 Ultimate x64) to look for more information/conflicts/change assignments? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? For the love of God (wo)man, help!


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:47 pm 
Smithfield
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I looked at Wikipedia because why not. Apparently there were issues in 2.1.
Quote:
Unfortunately, the increase in power from the slot breaks backward compatibility between PCI Express 2.1 cards and some older motherboards with 1.0/1.0a

This may have been carried over to PCI-Express 3.0. But that's the only hint I have here. Aside that PCI-Express 3.0 also introduced a new signaling protocol but designed to maintain compatibility with older implementations. I don't know if this means a PCI-Express 3.0 slot can take older cards, if older slots can take newer cards, or both.

Otherwise you'll have to do some digging in BIOS. And I'm pretty sure the whole thing with IRQ is no more anyway because back in the old days, interrupts had to go through another chip before hitting the CPU. Not to mention PCI-Express is setup up as point to point, so there shouldn't be resource sharing... except for the secondary PCI-Express slots.


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Yeah, I kind of figured I was hosed. I fond a post on another forum (EVGA?) with the same mobo and a different 750 Ti with the same problem. Thanks for the digging. I'll probably mess with it some more some time, but I don't expect much. I'll read more about PCIe, it seems likely that's where the problem lays given what you've already turned up.


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:21 pm 
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you got me thinking with this post, since I just bought a 3.0 card. I went to egg to check the specs on it, and it said it was 3.0 and in parentheses is said backward compatible. so I looked at the 750 to see what it said about it, and it only had 3.0 in the specs.


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Yeah, I've been poking around and I found this article which seems to have the Ultimate, Final, and Greatest Last Word on PCIe compatibilty and that answer is: nobody has any idea. No, actually, it seems to be in how PCIe is implemented on the card, particularly in the power delivery (as indicated by Wikipedia via LatiosXT), which was a change introduced in 2.1. Any compatibility issues should be able to be addressed by a BIOS update. So, there may be some rare occasions with a PCIe 1.x mobo and a 2.1 capable or above card are incompatible, where no BIOS revision has been released that addresses it. It looks like maybe NVIDIA has avoided the newer features thus far in an effort to provide compatibility, but maybe with the renowned efficiency of Maxwell this has changed. I'll keep reading, probably discover everything I've just said is wrong. Then I'll find out I was right. Then wrong again.

What card did you get g.m.?


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:10 pm 
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evga gtx770 this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130946


Last edited by g.m.waters (red ranger3) on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Hmm, according to PCI-SIG there are no compatibility issues card to slot or slot to card across all generations. :evil:
Spoiler: show
Q: Will PCIe 3.0 products be compatible with existing PCIe 1.x and PCIe 2.x products?
A: PCI-SIG is proud of its long heritage of developing compatible architectures and its members have consistently produced compatible and interoperable products. In keeping with this tradition, the PCIe 3.0 architecture is fully compatible with prior generations of this technology, from software to clocking architecture to mechanical interfaces. That is to say PCIe 1.x and 2.x cards will seamlessly plug into PCIe 3.0-capable slots and operate at their highest performance levels. Similarly, all PCIe 3.0 cards will plug into PCIe 1.x- and PCIe 2.x-capable slots and operate at the highest performance levels supported by those configurations. The following chart summarizes the interoperability between various generations of PCIe and the resultant interconnect performance level:

Transmitter Device Receiver Device Channel Interconnect Data Rate
8GHz 8GHz 8GHz 8.0GT/s
5GHz 5GHz 5GHz 5.0GT/s
2.5GHz 2.5GHz 2.5GHz 2.5GT/s
8GHz 5GHz 8GHz 5.0GT/s
8GHz 2.5GHz 8GHz 2.5GT/s
5GHz 2.5GHz 5GHz 2.5GT/s

In short, the notion of the compatible highest performance level is modeled after the mathematical least common denominator (LCD) concept. Also, PCIe 3.0 products will need to support 8b/10b encoding when operating in a pre-PCIe 3.0 environment.
So now what?


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:31 pm 
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perhaps, but the 750 is the first card of the next generation from nvidia, and the only one for now, the die size will change when they bring out the next ones (8 series or whatever) and whatever changes they make in the meantime for compatability sake.


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 Post subject: Re: Old mobo (Asus M2R32-MVP) can't support 750 Ti?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Yeah, I think I got cut on the bleeding edge. Oh well, at least I got it working in a different machine. And the PPD are worth every drop I shed.


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