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 Post subject: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:31 am 
8086
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I have a 2 yr. old pc with a GA Z68AP-D3 mobo, a I3-2130(or 3120) cpu, a EVGA 650 gt video card, and a Creative sound card. I had a power spike that took out the mobo and hard drive. Got a surge protector, replaced the mobo and HHD. PC worked fine until I tried to start it and all it would do is turn on and shut off. Nothing else! Sent the mobo for RMA to Gigabyte and the pc once again worked fine. And then the same thing with turning on and off. Before I try to send the board back again I want to know if the power supply could be damaging the board or if it's just a bad board. I did all the stuff with removing all the cards including the ram and the board doesn't beep with the ram out. Any info would be helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:18 am 
Coppermine
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I'd think you have a bad power supply. What brand and what wattage is it rated at?


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:48 am 
8086
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It's a "Turbolink Switching power supply model: ATX-TL500W-BK. 500W and it's a little over two yrs. old.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:55 am 
Smithfield
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My hunch is (mostly with what I know about electronics) is it shouldn't. The only way it could be damaged is if it's getting higher voltages than it's rated for. But that can only happen if the voltage regulators are hosed and somehow the input and output got shorted. But even then, whatever that voltage might be, it would kill the computer right away the moment you applied power.

Either way, I'd replace the power supply.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:15 am 
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Aren't PSUs supposed to sacrifice themselves if you get a power spike, instead of destroying the mobo+hdd?

Could it be that the Apevia psu just failed, especially after that power spike.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:21 am 
Smithfield
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phillyj wrote:
Aren't PSUs supposed to sacrifice themselves if you get a power spike, instead of destroying the mobo+hdd?

Could it be that the Apevia psu just failed, especially after that power spike.

They are, but they could also allow transient voltage spikes through once they fail.

Electricity can jump through an insulator if the voltage is high enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:23 am 
8086
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 am
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I don't trust it so I'm going to replace the power supply. Maybe get a 550W or a little higher. In the meantime I'll see if Gigabyte will take the board back again. The power spike took out two pc's, The 2 yr. old one I'm writing about and one I got in 2006 that gets used for minor stuff. That one is a HP dx5150 MT. Replaced the mobo on that one and it worked good until the HHD gave up. The mb on that one is still good, checked it with another HHD. If anyone else has ideas please speak up, Thanks for the replies so far.
phillyj, what brand is a Apevia?
I do have a new Monster brand HT 800G surge protector that was in use when the MB failed this time. I think it's 2160 joules.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:32 am 
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chuckabt wrote:
phillyj, what brand is a Apevia?


You said your PSU was "ATX-TL500W-BK". Google told me it is Apevia brand, which is a poor quality PSU company. You can get better quality from corsair, antec, etc. without breaking the bank.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:51 am 
8086
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 am
Posts: 30
I bought the pc from cyberpower so that would explain the low grade psu.
Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho, to Best Buy I will go.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:57 am 
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Location: back on the right side of the middle of the left side YES i'm folding
the apivia is made by youngyear in taiwon.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:59 pm 
8086
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 am
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I just picked up a Corsair CX750M, that should do the trick. I'm going to take the Apevia one and see if my pickaxe will go through it. Vent a little if you know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:18 pm 
Coppermine
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I'd open it up and check the capacitors. I'd bet they are bloated and leaking.....


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:13 pm 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
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oldwizkid wrote:
I'd open it up and check the capacitors. I'd bet they are bloated and leaking.....

Well even if they are, all we're doing is confirming it's pretty much dead and it sounds like the power supply is dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:10 pm 
8086
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:58 am
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chuckabt wrote:
I just picked up a Corsair CX750M, that should do the trick. I'm going to take the Apevia one and see if my pickaxe will go through it.

Learn from the experience. Apparently a PSU was completely defective; motherboard was just fine. PSUs must not cause motherboard damage (for a long list of reasons). A defective motherboard must not damage any properly designed PSU. In fact, industry standards define the thickness of a wire used to short out all PSU outputs. And even that 'every output shorted' test does not damage a PSU.

Instead of wildly replacing things, a defect could have been identified with one minute of labor using a digital meter. But again, learn from the experience.

How do you know a spike caused damage? Most PSU failures are directly traceable to manufacturing defects. If a spike caused damage, then a list of other damaged appliances (maybe including the furnace, dishwasher, TV, and clocks) also exist. PSU and other defects due to counterfeit electroylete. Causing failures many years later. Another example of the reason for most damage - manufacturing defects.

To say more required numbers from that meter and other hard facts that would have identified the defect in minutes and the first time ... without even disconnecting one cable. Prosper by learning from this event. Learn how to better solve problems the next time - electronics and otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:04 am 
8086
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 am
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I had two pc's wiped out at the same time. Both were on a simple power strip. My bad for that. Replaced the MB's and they worked. My older pc (2006) which is not the topic of discussion here is still working fine. Except the HHD gave up last week and it's circuit board is fried. Plugged a different HHD in and it wanted to boot up but had compatibility issues. The pc we're talking about here has cooked the MB 3 times now. Gigabyte fixed it this last time and it was working fine until it wouldn't work one morning. As I said, I don't trust the power supply so I'm replacing it. Now to see if Gigabyte will fix the board again.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:51 pm 
8086
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:58 am
Posts: 16
chuckabt wrote:
The pc we're talking about here has cooked the MB 3 times now.

To know means discovering what semiconductor or motherboard function has been damaged. Again, from a previous post. PSU could have been defective when first purchased. Then multiple motherboards fail intermittently. Failed motherboards were not damaged. Simply failed without damage because a PSU was always defective. A conclusion only from observation causes future failures. Those motherboards could be fine. But a defective power supply made each appear to act damaged.

Never assume it is good because it worked. Or it is bad because something else was actually defective and causing it to act defective. In each case, observation without relevant details and numbers failed to identify a defective PSU when it was purchased (still under warranty).

Had you said why it is defective, then others with better knowledge could have identified the problem the first time. Conclusions (ie motherboard failed) without even one good reason to know why is how to learn from the mistake.

Is a new PSU good or defective? Defective supplies can still boot and run a computer. A good power supply that fails in one system can work just fine in another. Examples of why observation (swapping parts) causes confusion. In this case, numbers from one minute labor with a meter would answer that ... without speculation. I don't see any reasons that say a motherboard was damaged or a PSU was defective.

Cheapest way to fix something is to take it to a professional. We fix things to gain something far more important - knowledge from the experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:07 pm 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
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westom wrote:
Cheapest way to fix something is to take it to a professional.

Actually that's one of the most expensive ways to fix something. The cheapest way is if you know how to do it yourself.

Also while you bring up some good points, I don't like the overall message. For the most part, people who have little to no experience with electronics shouldn't start tinkering with power supplies. They can still retain a lot of power even when they're off, and one minor mistake like shorting out two leads because the screwdriver fell on the PCB in the right position can pretty much ruin everything.

Instead of offering obscure words of wisdom that are of no help to anyone, why not try dispensing some suggestions that OP can do? Although I should've done the same thing a few posts back. Eh, oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:03 pm 
8086
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:58 am
Posts: 16
LatiosXT wrote:
Actually that's one of the most expensive ways to fix something. The cheapest way is if you know how to do it yourself.

How do you learn how to do it yourself? Learn from mistakes. In productive parts of the economy, normal is for nine out of ten products to fail. What results from so many failures is knowledge and the resulting innovation and massive profits. Or "Work smarter; not harder."

Cheapest way to fix something is to have a professional replace only the part that is defective. So that future failures do not happen. Or spend more money making many mistakes - and then learn from those mistakes. The more expensive solution is actually more productive - but only if one learns from the mistakes. Some have too much ego to even ask.

Good diagnostic procedure learned from a computer can be applied elsewhere. One can either spin tires until the car eventuallly moves. Or first learn why a problem exists so as to not get stuck in the future. There is much to be learned from digging a car out ... if one is also asking how to avert future mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:30 pm 
8086
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 am
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Each time the MB failed I went through the steps of removing the cards and memory and each time it was the same result. RAM was last with the same result. No beeps with the ram removed and the pc shutting off and turning on every 15-20 seconds. I'm not going to waste another MB to get the same result. I agree that the psu is low grade and may be at fault so I'm doing the only thing I can and replacing it with a quality Corsair unit. Or I will when I get home tomorrow. I'm out of town right now or I would have changed it already.


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 Post subject: Re: Is my power supply damagimg my mobo?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:59 pm 
Smithfield
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westom wrote:
Cheapest way to fix something is to have a professional replace only the part that is defective. So that future failures do not happen. Or spend more money making many mistakes - and then learn from those mistakes. The more expensive solution is actually more productive - but only if one learns from the mistakes. Some have too much ego to even ask.

Uh. You can spend $100 at Best Buy where "professionals" only look at your computer and can tell you erroneous things. Or they can come to us enthusiasts who've probably have dealt with this before and tell OP what his problem is right away. For free.


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