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 Post subject: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:31 pm 
8086
8086
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so i got back from deployment and decided i wanna get back into the pc world and game my a#$ off again well i need a rig so can you help me out? here is what I'm thinking so far:

cpu: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor

cpu cooler:
-Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler
-Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler

motherboard: (options)
-MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Extreme OC High Performance triple CFX/ SLI Intel Motherboard
-ASUS MAXIMUS VI FORMULA LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX gaming board with double-sided ROG Armor, 23C-degrees cooler CrossChill and 120dB SNR, 600ohm audio
-ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

memory: (options)
-Corsair Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory
-Corsair Vengeance Pro 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory

storage: (options)
-Samsung EVO 1TB 2.5" Solid State Disk +Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

graphics card: (options)
-MSI GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB Video Card
-Gigabyte GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB Video Card
-Asus GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card
-Asus GeForce GTX 770 4GB Video Card

power supply: (need help)
case: (need help i like plain mostly but needs to have great ventilation great if metal)
fans: (need help)
monitor: ( need help looking to run 2 also will need help finding duel mount if price goes over 3000 with the monitors its ok budget is mostly for rig)


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:01 am 
8086
8086
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:10 pm
Posts: 9
any help ?


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:42 am 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5255
I'm guessing this is for gaming.

CPU: Drop this to a Core i5-4670K, unless you don't plan on overclocking. In which case the next step down will do you well.

Cooler: Get the Cooler Master 212. Water cooling kits should only be looked at if you're overclocking to a heavy degree.

Motherboard: Judging by those models, I'm guessing those run in the range of $150-$200. Motherboards past $150 start looking pricey since all they have are nice-to-have features that you can usually do manually on a cheaper board. Stick to boards in the $120-$150 price range. You get all the I/O you want in a higher end board with some convenience features without breaking the bank. Sort of.

RAM: You only need 8GB. Most games are still 32-bit and Windows 64-bit caps 32-bit programs to use 2GB, with some games being the exception. Games that "recommend" 6GB of RAM at this point are either poorly written or don't actually eat that much memory. The most RAM I would say is enough is 16GB, but that's it.

Storage: I'd opt for a smaller SSD, in the 250GB range and spend the difference on a larger hard drive. You want to use the SSD as a write-few, read-many drive if you want to keep it around for as long as possible. And while SSD transfer speeds are nice, their real benefit, in my opinion, is response time. It makes a world of difference when it takes secondary memory to respond in 0.00001 seconds than 0.01 seconds. But otherwise, if you hoard a ton of small-bandwidth files such as documents, pictures, music, and videos, then having a bigger hard drive is better than having an SSD in this case.

Graphics card: The current sweet spot card as far as I know is the GTX 770. Unless you're aiming for resolutions larger than 1080p, this will do for a majority of games at their maximum detail and will maintain smooth frame rates.

Power supply: General rule is, if you're using one video card, find a 600W PSU. Add 150W for every video card after that. Brands to look for are Seasonic and Corsair.

Case: I can't really help here since this is mostly a personal preference thing. But if you like plain or non-flashy looking cases, Corsair makes great minimalistic looking cases that perform well.

Fans: It really depends on how anal you are about fan noise. If you keep the case on the floor you won't really notice it (at least I don't with mine). If anything, the GPU is going to make a lot of noise once you start something.

Monitors: Are you fine with 1080p? Then there are plenty of options out there. The only thing you really need to care about is if you care more about faster refresh rates, which means you can use faster frame rates or want reasonable color accuracy and viewing angles. If you don't really care about refresh rates, find an IPS monitor. As for who to buy from, ASUS tends to be a winner here. I personally go with anyone who uses an LG or Samsung panel, and I've had Dells for the past three monitors I've used since they use LG panels (and I never had a problem with them).


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:36 pm 
8086
8086
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:10 pm
Posts: 9
thanks for the help. I'm a lil lost on the reason for dropping the i7 to i5? as far as the board the main one i was looking at was the msi gd65. and whats the difference between the 770 and 780 ti cards and should i run 2 cards?. can you explain the ssd part again I'm new to building and the monitor id like to run up to the best quality i can play on and looks on the screen. i wish to play on ultra settings if available. mind you I'm not challenged with computers I've just never had the time to learn all the hardware to get it up and running when starting from scratch.

thx
lcpl hair


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:56 pm 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5255
maxsuppression wrote:
I'm a lil lost on the reason for dropping the i7 to i5?
The performance difference between the i5 and the i7 is not enough to justify the cost difference. See http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsec ... temid=1061

Quote:
and whats the difference between the 770 and 780 ti cards and should i run 2 cards?
The GTX 780 Ti performs better than the GTX 770. You can see a comparison here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1072?vs=1037.

The only time I would recommend having two cards in a system is if you're trying to run 4K displays, or you find a pair of cards that has a better price/performance ratio than a higher end card.

Quote:
can you explain the ssd part again
This is a kind of complicated topic.

Basically SSDs have two advantages: transfer rates and latency. Transfer rate is how fast the file moves from the drive to its destination (at the limitation of how fast the destination can accept). When loading programs, this is always RAM. So it sounds like if you have a faster transfer rate, things should load faster. This is always true on an SSD vs. a hard drive. However, the amount of performance gains depreciates rapidly depending on what needs to be loaded, how many things needed to be loaded, and if the program needs to initialize its data. For example, Windows 7 on an HDD typically for me loaded within 50 seconds from a cold boot. An SSD has 5 times the transfer rate, but it can only load Windows 7 within 30-35 seconds.

Latency is how fast the drive can find the file and start the transfer. I find this more useful because a lot of file requests are small files and a bunch of them. Latency adds up real quick. For instance, if you had to read 10000 files that total 1GB versus a single file of 1GB, transfer rates considered equal, it would take longer to do the 10000 files because there's latency involved in finding those 10000 files. On a hard drive, the average latency is say 20ms, so you have 200 seconds of wait time at the worst case. On an SSD the average latency is 0.01ms, so it's only adding 0.1 seconds.

The primary disadvantage of a SSD is that it's limited in the amount of times you can write data to it. For most SSDs though, this isn't a cause for concern (it's 10,000 writes per flash cell). However, Samsung's 840 series uses a type of flash that is only expected to last for 1000 writes.

However the bit about low-bandwidth files, there's no performance benefit from residing on an SSD since they require very low transfer rates. The worst you can expect from a movie is like dozens of megabytes a second, and that's if it's a raw video feed. And if you constantly write to them, it's adding to the write cycles on an SSD.

Quote:
and the monitor id like to run up to the best quality i can play on and looks on the screen. i wish to play on ultra settings if available.

Quality of a monitor depends on what you care about. Do you want to see faster frame rates? Do you care if colors look different from different spots of the monitor even if you're seeing the monitor head on?


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:33 pm 
Coppermine
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First, thank you for your service.

As to your build, have you tried pricing the components yet? And if you have a budget of $3000 - and you have no problem spending $3000 - then aim for the rafters and buy as high end as you possibly can. That being said...here are a few comments:
  • While the i7 doesn't provide much more performance than the i5, I think it's still a reasonable purchase and certainly not excessive. If you happen to live close to a micro center, then you can pick one up at a ridiculous price.
  • I like the MSi motherboard. I can't remember the difference between the G65 and the G45, but I used the G45 and it works fine.
  • Personally, I'm not too worried about the longevity of SSDs. As noted in this Anandtech article even with heavy usage (I consider 10GBs of writes daily a lot), the Samsung 840 256GB would last over 20 years. And while 256GB is the current sweet spot, I would split the difference with your original suggestion and go 500GB. That allows you ample room for your applications. I would recommend any data files (non-game, excel, word, etc.) be put on a separate HDD. Try to save the SSD for the OS, games and applications where possible.
  • Monitors are personal preference. I like larger screens, so I have 27". Because I'm cheap, it's only 1080p, is TN and cost about $200. Other people feel 27" is too much surface area for gaming and go smaller, like 23-4". And the IPS panels provide better color quality with a wider viewing angle than TNs. This ASUS 24" is IPS and 1920x1200 at only $240. If you like larger screens, this Dell 27" is an IPS, 2560x1440 monitor. But the $650 price tag is 20% of your budget.
  • Of course people want to play games at the nicest, highest setting possible. And while pricier GPUs generally provide more fps, even the best ones will cry 'uncle' with some of the most demanding games, as documented in this MPC article. NOTE: the 770 is roughly equivalent to the 680. This is where I evaluate price/performance. Does a $700 780 Ti (~30% performance increase over the $350 770 at twice the price) provide enough performance for the difference? IMO, no. Literally, that $350 difference = the 4770k! I would rather buy a GPU that's a step down from the top end today, and in a couple years replace it with the newest generation GPU (around the same price as the 770) which will probably surpass the 780 Ti.

Hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:40 pm 
8086
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:10 pm
Posts: 9
"Quality of a monitor depends on what you care about. Do you want to see faster frame rates? Do you care if colors look different from different spots of the monitor even if you're seeing the monitor head on?"

guess it would be frame rates never really asked myself that


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:12 pm 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5255
ASUS has a 144Hz monitor model, though it's 1080p. So in regards to that, you might want a GTX 780, but not the Ti version. Though this is more thinking about games in the future. A GTX 770 should play most games made now and before well beyond 60FPS to make the extra refresh rate worthwhile.

Though since it's out, you might want to look into a G-Sync enabled monitor as well. I hear those offer a very good experience.


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:57 pm 
8086
8086
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:10 pm
Posts: 9
what about this

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2XP8f


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:46 pm 
Coppermine
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I wish it was my computer.

Only thing I would change is the RAM - no need for DDR3 2400. DDR3 1600 is all you need, but if you want something slightly faster (and you won't notice any difference because it's so minimal), try the DDR3 1866 Corsair Vengeance Pro.

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:30 am 
Smithfield
Smithfield

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5255
Look into seeing if the ASUS 144Hz monitor is cheaper. $340 seems pricey to me, even for a "high end" TN panel


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 Post subject: Re: first build $2000 to $3000 budget need help
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:44 pm 
8086
8086
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:10 pm
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think I'm gonna wait for the rog swift monitor in march


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