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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:24 pm 
Smithfield
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FascistNation wrote:
I was going to say I see no point in a i5 when a fast dual core i3 would be cheaper and likely faster.

The scant benchmarks I could find on the i3 show the i5 is still faster by an appreciable margin. I really wish I knew what was going on with these things though.

If I were to make up a theory about gaming though is that a lot of various components are threaded for the sake of organization. Plus developers have had multi-core processors to work with for over 8 years now. In any case, I don't believe the whole thing with "games on PCs only work with one or two cores" isn't because games are not using them, it may just be that jobs scheduled to the cores are done so fast that the next waiting thread gets sent to the same core. That or Amdahl's Law is hit hardest on these kinds of processes.

In any case, I highly doubt with the arrival of the PS4 and Xbox One with their 8-core processors that multi-core processing in games will become important. It's using what is an Atom class processor. A Celeron processor with half the cores will still run circles around an Atom.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:33 pm 
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ScissorShock wrote:
That really stinks.

With that in mind, and my budget, the best option now is to replace the CPU/MoBo and buy Windows(with $300) instead of buying just an AM3 CPU?


they still sell them here is one, http://starmicroinc.net/index.php ATACOM.COM has them as well although they are more expensive.even frys.com still has them.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:29 am 
8086
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To the OP, your HP system has an N-Alvorix-RS880-uATX motherboard, which is socket AM3, but more importantly has a maximum TDP of 95 watts. I foresee two issues trying to upgrade this rig.

The recommendation of a Thuban 6 core processor (which would be the only real noticeable upgrade), is problematic. Almost all of the [decent] Thuban processors are 125 watt CPUs and would not function (or would fry) your mobo. There are a few 95 watt Phenom II x6 Thubans, but they are scarce, and pricey. The Phenom II x6 1055T was made in two versions, a 125 and 95 watt TDP. However the 95 watt version is hard to locate, and isn't worth the premium people are charging for it. There is also a Phenom II x6 1065T which is exclusively a 95 watt TDP chip. It is even more scare and expensive though. There is also an AMD Phenom II X6 1035T and a 1045T which are both 95w procs, but they're out of stock almost anywhere you look and aren't nearly as fast/good as the 1055/1065T.

If you can find a 95 watt 1055 or 1065T I would get it in a heartbeat if the price was right.

The second issue is that OEM Windows is indeed tied to your mobo, so if you change that N-Alvorix motherboard to accommodate a better proc, Windows will not re-install with your current activation key. Yes you can try calling Microsoft for a new key (don't bother calling HP, that is an exercise in futility, and will just waste an hour or two and piss you off). If you get the right CS person from MS, they might give you a new activation key (depending on what you tell them of course). But I wouldn't count on it. You can always try though. Worst case scenario is you'll have to buy a copy of Win 7 which is about $90 on Newegg.

The other school of thought is that you're already buying a lot of new components, why not go all the way and just make a new build?

To start with I'd switch teams, and get a last gen LGA1155 Z77 mobo which you can find for $75 or less, and an i5 3470 or 3570 (k or non, depending on what you want to do). This will blow any of the previously mentioned Thuban procs out of the water. For less than $300 you could get a i5 3570 and a decent Z75 or Z77 chipset mobo (yes I know you'll still need Win 7). But with a 3570 and a GTX 760 you'd be set for a few years.

Hey its your money - so don't listen to any of us if its not what you want. But it sounds like you're gonna end up spending several hundred on a system with a three or four year old proc, that is just "ok" by todays standards if you try and keep that mobo. I'd get a new mobo and pair it with the i5 3570.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:46 am 
Smithfield
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TDP is a cooling requirement, not a electrical power requirement.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:00 pm 
8086
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Yes I am aware of what Thermal Design Power is. A 125 watt proc does have a higher wattage requirement than a 95 watt proc though. It may work and the system may POST, and I may have misspoke saying it would not function. I should have said may not function properly. I've seen some crazy mods and configs that should not work on paper -but do for some reason. But its still a bad idea in my book and your'e tempting fate and it could damage or fry your board and/or CPU since that board is not designed to dissipate the heat from a 125 watt proc. You would likely be running the VRMs at their max load producing more heat that could be managed effectively. A solid ASUS, Gigabyte, or MSI board might have no prob at all with a nice aftermarket cooler, but the OEM board in the HP...probably not so much. I just wouldn't do it.

But - like I also said. Its your money, your rig, so do what you want.

And these other guys prob know more than me anyway. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:48 pm 
Smithfield
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I was going to ask "why the hell would you make a socket and change its specs later?" Because AMD is stupid.

Yeah, it's more than likely a 125W Processor won't work in a 95W board.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:14 am 
8086
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hapkiman wrote:
...The other school of thought is that you're already buying a lot of new components, why not go all the way and just make a new build?

To start with I'd switch teams, and get a last gen LGA1155 Z77 mobo which you can find for $75 or less, and an i5 3470 or 3570 (k or non, depending on what you want to do). This will blow any of the previously mentioned Thuban procs out of the water. For less than $300 you could get a i5 3570 and a decent Z75 or Z77 chipset mobo (yes I know you'll still need Win 7). But with a 3570 and a GTX 760 you'd be set for a few years.


It's not that I don't want to replace all of my system, I do, it's just that I have to go slow and buy parts each week.

Right now, with just that 760, I'm able to run AC:Black Flag at max/high settings with decent framerate @ 1080p. I'm actually happy with it overall, I thought the CPU would hold it back more but it runs great!!

Anyways, yea, I do want to replace the CPU/MoBo and was thinking about getting the i5-3470/3570/etc., whatever you guys recommend. What's so special about z75/77 chipsets? Can't I just get a cheap mobo that supports the socket-type?


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:32 am 
Smithfield
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http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articl ... rence-473/ Basically summarizes the differences between chipsets (for the 8 series anyway). You can get away with a cheaper motherboard, if you don't mind losing connectivity options/


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:45 am 
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ScissorShock wrote:
It's not that I don't want to replace all of my system, I do, it's just that I have to go slow and buy parts each week.

Right now, with just that 760, I'm able to run AC:Black Flag at max/high settings with decent framerate @ 1080p. I'm actually happy with it overall, I thought the CPU would hold it back more but it runs great!!

Anyways, yea, I do want to replace the CPU/MoBo and was thinking about getting the i5-3470/3570/etc., whatever you guys recommend. What's so special about z75/77 chipsets? Can't I just get a cheap mobo that supports the socket-type?


Hey, that's great news. So in the meantime, it seems you are fine. Now, for an upgrade, I suggest that you set money aside in a fund until you got about $300 or so to buy the MOBO+CPU+Win7 together. Watch those newegg deals. Usually, you will find Win7 for $80 or else they go over $100 on newegg.

The more expensive mobos have more features that you probably don't need, like better overclocking support. You're limited to mATX boards. The prices vary depending on what you want on the board. If you go with 2 RAM slots and no SLI option, you can get good quality boards $50 or under. If you want 4 RAM slots, prices start around $60. The i5-3470 is around $180 so the only place you can cut back on is the MOBO.

You might be able to get everything you want for $300 but be prepared to go up to $350. For the time being, it looks like you're good to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:41 am 
8086
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:15 pm
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phillyj wrote:
The more expensive mobos have more features that you probably don't need, like better overclocking support. You're limited to mATX boards. The prices vary depending on what you want on the board. If you go with 2 RAM slots and no SLI option, you can get good quality boards $50 or under. If you want 4 RAM slots, prices start around $60. The i5-3470 is around $180 so the only place you can cut back on is the MOBO.

You might be able to get everything you want for $300 but be prepared to go up to $350. For the time being, it looks like you're good to go.


Why am I limited to mATX? I'm not using the case the HP was in.

i5-3470 would last a while? Or since I'm saving, should I just save up another week and get something a bit better?


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:29 am 
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Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were still using the HP case. Well, then there's no limits except your budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Question About Upgrading CPU/MoBo on a Pre-Built HP.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:58 am 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
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ScissorShock wrote:
i5-3470 would last a while? Or since I'm saving, should I just save up another week and get something a bit better?

I'd save up another week if it's that short.


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