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 Post subject: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:30 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
Hi everyone,

I need some advice regarding a new build that I'm throwing together. My budget is ideally around $1500. I play the odd game, but the primary purpose of the build will be for serious video encoding/editing. My video library is quite extensive, making my need for extreme storage an absolute requirement. For example, I have 14 3TB HDs ready to throw into a case. I need a mobo with tonnes of sata and USB 3 support. I'm looking for advice to help figure out how I can reduce some costs without jeapardizing too much performance. I'm trying to drop the overall cost by $200-$300, but I'm finding it difficult figuring out what the best bang for my buck is! Below is a list of the components that I have selected so far.

LIAN LI PC-D8000 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6811112390

CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 Modular Power Supply
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817139010

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UP7 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Motherboard
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6813128569

Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6819116501

GIGABYTE GV-N660OC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Video Card
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6814125443

G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) F3-2400C10D-16GTX
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6820231589

Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD3 mSATA 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6820148612

Cheers! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:52 pm 
Coppermine
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Few questions/comments:

*Why DDR 2400 RAM? You're paying a premium for that RAM - not to mention you may have to fiddle with voltages to make it stable in the mobo you chose. Will DDR 1600 RAM suffice? For example, here's 16GB G.Skill Ares for $50 less (I kept G.Skill only because that's the brand you mention, feel free to use any decent brand).
*Finally, with 14 HDDs (all SATA, I'm guessing) - give me an idea of how you would attach all of them to your computer. Are you RAIDing any, or are you going to have 14 separate HDDs?
*Is your name Reed Hastings? :P


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:23 pm 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
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That board doesn't have nearly enough ports for your hard drives. You will need to skirt in a controller card.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:30 pm 
8086
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
btdog wrote:
Few questions/comments:

*Why DDR 2400 RAM? You're paying a premium for that RAM - not to mention you may have to fiddle with voltages to make it stable in the mobo you chose. Will DDR 1600 RAM suffice? For example, here's 16GB G.Skill Ares for $50 less (I kept G.Skill only because that's the brand you mention, feel free to use any decent brand).
*Finally, with 14 HDDs (all SATA, I'm guessing) - give me an idea of how you would attach all of them to your computer. Are you RAIDing any, or are you going to have 14 separate HDDs?
*Is your name Reed Hastings? :P


Funny that you mentioned the DDR 2400 RAM :P After posting my specs, I figured that RAM was too pricey so I went with G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DD3 1600 for a saving of about $40. I have never used G.SKILL but from what I've read it's pretty good bang for your buck! All the drives are SATA 3 and are currently connected either through my mobo SATA ports or through PCI-E SATA controllers. I have 10 drives in a mid-tower case :mrgreen: and 4 drives in a SansDigital TR4M enclosure.

I also changed the processor to Intel Core i5-3570K, saving approx $100, but I'm still i bit uncertain about that.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:31 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
LatiosXT wrote:
That board doesn't have nearly enough ports for your hard drives. You will need to skirt in a controller card.


Ya, does a mobo with 20+ sata ports even exist?


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:42 pm 
Smithfield
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 5548
Not in your price range probably.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:39 am 
Clawhammer
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14x3TB = 43TB! That's way too much porn. Get some help and scale back your parts and save $600 with a Asrock Pro4, Antec 620, 7950, Define R4 and 8Gb of Samsung magic ram.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:16 am 
8086
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:03 pm
Posts: 44
kleinkinstein wrote:
14x3TB = 43TB! That's way too much porn. Get some help and scale back your parts and save $600 with a Asrock Pro4, Antec 620, 7950, Define R4 and 8Gb of Samsung magic ram.


Or grab one of those corsair cases they have a nice 15% off with free shipping on newegg :D


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:39 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
kleinkinstein wrote:
14x3TB = 43TB! That's way too much porn. Get some help and scale back your parts and save $600 with a Asrock Pro4, Antec 620, 7950, Define R4 and 8Gb of Samsung magic ram.


I'm confused? Instead of suggesting alternative components that meet my stated requirements, you're recommending that I seek help and throw out my hardware, along with my intended build purpose, to save some money?? Your recommended parts did offer substantial cost savings, however, they do not remotely meet my requirements. That being said, however, I will definitely keep them in mind when building a new rig for my infant daughter so she can run her educational programs such as Sesame Street's "Measure that Animal".


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:14 pm 
Clawhammer
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Ha! You're funny but you're going about this all wrong. If you have a shit barrel of video just buy/build a NAS or HTPC and have it live there. 14 hdd's is illogical for a PC. And in actuality (almost) each part I suggest not only saved you the money you're after but improved on your component. If you're encoding all you need is the 3770k because of the HT and 8Gb of 1.35v dimms. The rest is eye candy. It smells that you're picking parts based on the marketing, color scheme and promise not on performance and utility.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:49 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
kleinkinstein wrote:
Ha! You're funny but you're going about this all wrong. If you have a shit barrel of video just buy/build a NAS or HTPC and have it live there. 14 hdd's is illogical for a PC. And in actuality (almost) each part I suggest not only saved you the money you're after but improved on your component. If you're encoding all you need is the 3770k because of the HT and 8Gb of 1.35v dimms. The rest is eye candy. It smells that you're picking parts based on the marketing, color scheme and promise not on performance and utility.


You're suggesting for me to build a PC with similar components/costs that you are suggesting and, in addition, buy/build a NAS or HTPC to house my video files? Seriously, when you combine the costs, will it not essentially be the same or even more? For a NAS, wouldn't I have to buy multiple cases to house all the drives? What about future expansion? Wouldn't it be more logical to buy 1 massive case and thow everything in there?

At least with my build (or similar), I would get the added bonus of being able to play the lastest PC games fo a lot longer. I'll have another look into your components.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:37 pm 
Clawhammer
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You're not understanding the power and flexibility of a NAS. But before we go there any deeper, let's back up to your "14" hdd's. Impressive number but give us the total size of space you have and how it's comprised? For example, 4x250GB + 2x320 + 6x500 + 1x1000 = THREE requisite 3TB drives and plenty of space remaining. Much more manageable and sane architecture for a build. So lay out your layout.

lowrider wrote:
At least with my build (or similar), I would get the added bonus of being able to play the lastest PC games fo a lot longer.

False. I didn't change your proc (yet some data proves that the non-HT 3570k outperforms the 3770k. But you need the 3770k for yoour encoding. And the 7950 pounds your 660. Every other part is irrelevant in games today or tomorrow. You do need to do some performance homework. The first thing you truly need to do is realize your parts aren't ideal nor the best and then we can get productive.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:12 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
So lay out your layout.

I mentioned my layout in the original post - 14 x 3TB

And the 7950 pounds your 660.

There is no disputing the performance of the two cards, but the cost went up by approx $100. I was trying to get the bast value with the card I selected. I'm not suggesting my parts are ideal, that is why I'm seeking some guidance. However, the mobo that you presented is a budget board with little more than basic features (none that I was looking for). The Antec power supply you presented is inferior to the Corsair 750HX. I was going with 750 to power all the HDs in the case. However, if you're suggesting that I can build a NAS with 14 drives for cheap I'm definitely interested on finding out how.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:21 pm 
Mr. Late Night
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Cramming 14+ drives into a case and getting a motherboard to support them all simply isn't going to happen unless you start looking at enterprise class server boards which would torpedo your budget in a hurry. The parts that you list for the most are solid but there are some changes that I would recommend:

1) The motherboard you selected is nice but in all honesty for the build you're describing I don't see you using all of the extras that it comes with that are more geared towards extreme overclocking and other performance enhancements. I would instead suggest a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H for $200. This will more than serve your needs and serve as a good base platform although in all honesty an ASRock Extreme4 will also serve your needs just fine.

2) The PSU is nice and a pretty good base although 750 watts is a bit of overkill it's not too far overboard. You might want to save a bit more but keep the same features with a Seasonic M12II 750 watt modular PSU.

3) You're going to need a controller card or an enclosure, short of going with an enterprise class motherboard which would also require investing in a Xeon processor there aren't any consumer grade boards out there with as many SATA ports as you need.

4) You're way overspending on RAM. Even with extreme video encoding you're not going to see a difference between DDR3-1600 RAM and DDR3-2400 RAM.

All of that being said here's what I would recommend for a build:

CPU: Intel i7 3770K - $329.99
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H - $199.99
RAM: Kingston HyperX 2 x 8GB DDR3-1600 - $86.99
GPU: Gigabyte Radeon 7950 3GB - $299.99
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB - $99.99
PSU: Seasonic M12II 750W - $129.99
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 - $109.99
Enclosure: MediaSonic 8 bay enclosure - $248.99

Total build cost (not including taxes & shipping): $1,505.92


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:02 pm 
8086
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
Posts: 12
nsafreak wrote:
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 - $109.99
Enclosure: MediaSonic 8 bay enclosure - $248.99


You make some great points and I will definitely look at that motherboard and components you suggest. Personally, I don't like the MediaSonic stuff as the build quality seems rather poor. Currently, I have a Sans Digital TR4M enclosure for the 4 drives that don't fit in my rig :mrgreen: In my view, the build quality seems just a tad better than the MediaSonic.

You're suggesting that I spend approx $360 in enclosures to house I think sixteen 3.5 drives. That's the same price as the LIAN LI PC-D8000 which houses twenty 3.5 drives. I acknowledge that I would need a couple SATA controllers but the same thing could be said for the external enclosures (SATA Port multiplier card). I was trying to get a mobo with the most SATA ports to minimize the SATA controllers. However, you guys make sense by purchasing a cheaper mobo and just add a couple controllers. Wouldn't one single rig be better than having two additional HD enclosures (x2 SATA port multipliers using PCI slots) on the floor and my desk?

Same with building a NAS...I probably will have to spend $300+ in enclosures (including original rig) to house all the drives. Unless I'm missing something here (totally possible), wouldn't one single rig be more logical and cheaper? Have you guys seen the LIAN LI PC-D8000? The case holds 20 drives, however, there is room to add an additional 10 with some modifications.

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:15 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
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nsafreak wrote:
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H - $199.99


Mobo looks sweet with some serious cost savings - two fewer SATA ports but still has a tonne of USB3 and a mSATA port. 7 PCI slots is nice. Much appreciated :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:42 pm 
Mr. Late Night
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Looking at it that way I can see where you're coming from. In an ideal world you could have a smaller case to house a few of the drives for the main PC and a NAS to house the rest located somewhere else in your residence that would be out of the way. The problem is that even if you went the route of building a NAS instead of buying a prebuilt enclosure by using something like a Pentium processor and a bare bones motherboard you'd still need a fairly large case and a controller card or two. Figure $50 for the CPU, another $50 for a base motherboard, another $25 for RAM another $50 for a decent PSU and say around $150 for a decent controller card that'll handle a bunch of drives plus around another $100 for a case to house it all and it quickly adds up. I do have to wonder though if you really need access to all of your media at all times. Have you considered a hotswap bay or two and only mounting the drives you frequently use and just putting the rest in a HDD storage case? I personally can't think of a reason that you always need access to over 43TB worth of data but perhaps I'm wrong on that count.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:08 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:49 pm
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nsafreak wrote:
I do have to wonder though if you really need access to all of your media at all times. Have you considered a hotswap bay or two and only mounting the drives you frequently use and just putting the rest in a HDD storage case?


The drives contain multi-media files that can be accessed throughout my entire house. For example, whenever I feel like watching a blu-ray movie, I just sit down at one of the TVs (with beer), surf through the various libraries, and select play. If I were to remove them from the network, it would be too much of a pain in the ass to swap them in and out before you're ready to sit down and watch the movie. It's all about the ultimate convenience.

I just noticed that the 9750 has one DVI port...Would that be a problem when using two monitors? How common is the minidisplay and HDMI ports in monitors?


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 Post subject: Re: NEW RIG - Seeking Advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:58 pm 
Mr. Late Night
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That's one large movie collection. I rip my blu rays as well and don't re-encode them, they're just pure rips put into MKV containers with DTS MA audio. In any case HDMI ports are becoming more common on monitors although displayports are not. Even if your monitors use DVI hookups it's pretty cheap and easy to pick up a HDMI to DVI converter.


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