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 Post subject: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:53 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Hello everyone.

Lately I've been thinking about building my own computer, since I'm doing pretty much everything on the computer. However, I have never been a professionnal about computer parts.
I'd like to have a gaming computer mostly, but I also need to think about my work, which is music (so I need a motherboard with a sound card slot).

I've already looked on the internet about what I have to look for to build my own PC. I've come with some ideas that I want to share with you, so you guys can tell me if it would be good to run games like crysis/modern warfare/the witcher/etc.

Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth x79
CPU: Intel Core i7-3770k Quad core
RAM: Corsair vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 3TB (7200rpm, 64MB cache)
Video card: ATi Radeon 5770 (that's what I have right now)
Power Supply: 700 watts (that's what I ahve right now)

And I don't really know what case could be the best for the parts I'm suggesting.
I'm mostly looking for parts that are under 400$, 'cause I'm gonna buy them one by one.

So, what do you think guys? Would it be enough to run big games?
Thanks for helping me!


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:14 pm 
Klamath
Klamath

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 286
The gaming build part, I can offer suggestions. But the music part I am unfamiliar. For the most part, PCs nowadays have decent audio built-in, so a separate audio card is unnecessary. But I guess depending on your needs, there must be stuff out there that someone else here may be able to chime in on. You may have to be more specific though on your audio needs.

So re your selected parts so far for a gaming build, consider:

- an Intel i5-3570K CPU instead of the costlier i7-3770K, as game will not see much of a benefit from the better processor.
- the matching Ivy 1155 socket, Z77 motherboard instead of the one you have selected.
- upgrading your GPU, as the one you have now will not keep up with modern games.

Re cases, most PC builds go in either ATX or micro-ATX format. Regardless of the format tough, as long as your parts work in the same format, you are good. Other than that, cases are about good cooling (kinda objective) and good looking (very subjective).

But before going into any details, do you have a total budget in mind? It sounds like you are planning to purchase parts one by one? What is the resolution and settings of the monitor you plan to game on? These questions will help to figure out what might work best for you.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:55 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
OK so:

Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth x77 (Ivy 1155 socket)
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570k Quad core
RAM: Corsair vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 3TB (7200rpm, 64MB cache)
Video card: ATi Radeon 5770 (that's what I have right now)
Power Supply: 700 watts (that's what I have right now)

GPU = Graphic card right? If so, yeah I know I can't handle modern games right now with this card. But I'm gonna buy my next graphic card a bit later.

I don't really have a budget in mind since I'm gonna buy the parts one by one. I will probably buy new parts every pay check I get. Might take a while, but I'm not in a hurry. But like I said, I don't want to spend over 400$ on 1 single part (I'm not tlaking about the graphic card. It's an exception of course).

Otherwise, I actually have 2 monitors (dual monitors). One 24" and the other 21", but I play games on my main monitor (24") and the resolution is 1920 x1080.

I wanna know though what are the differences between the ASUS Sabertooth x79 and ASUS Sabertooth x77 (Ivy 1155 socket), and also between Intel Core i7-3770k Quad core and Intel Core i5-3570k Quad core? Is it only the prices or the specs are different?

Thanks dude for answering also.

(What do you suggest on a GPU btw)?


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:26 am 
Little Foot
Little Foot

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 124
Your build is all over the place. Just get back to us with a price range and exactly what you will be using your computer for and we can help you a lot more than we can now.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:37 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Meh, and forget about the music part. I don't really need it honestly.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
OK. I'll make it simple. Looks like I'm hard to understand. I'm sorry.

I'm going to use the computer to play games (forget about the music thing I talked about - only gaming).

I don't really have a precise budget. However, I'm looking to buy computer parts that are under 400$ each ones (except for the graphic card).
So I believe it would be around 1000-1500$ total.

I have looked in the net for computer parts and I have come to this build:

Quote:
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth x79
CPU: Intel Core i7-3770k Quad core
RAM: Corsair vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 3TB (7200rpm, 64MB cache)
Video card: ATi Radeon 5770 (I'll change the card later)
Power Supply: 700 watts (I'll get a bigger one if needed)


BUT! I am no professionnal in building gaming PC (it's my first time), so I came here to get some suggestions from you people. Thanks to Hindolio for suggesting the ASUS Sabertooth x77 (Ivy 1155 socket) instead the ASUS Sabertooth x79 and the Intel Core i5-3570k Quad core instead the Intel Core i7-3770k Quad core . There's not a lot differences between these parts and they really cost less cheaper.

I just want to be able to run games like The Witcher, Crysis 2, Modern Warfaire, Battlefield 3, etc.

So from there, what can you guys suggest me?
Thanks a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 pm 
Klamath
Klamath

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 286
Metadom wrote:
OK. I'll make it simple. Looks like I'm hard to understand. I'm sorry...

Lol np and don't fret. Building a PC the first time is both exciting and freakin scary. Even if you know what to do, you will probably ask just for the sake confirmation.

Re your budget, imho around $1k for everything sans monitor, OS, kb & mouse, small things is a great range to be in. I would definitely suggest you purchase parts closely together and probably as late as possible and there are a couple reasons for this:
1) When you are ready with a list of parts and money in the bank, purchase as much as possible when there is a good deal/sale.
2) Although unlikely, it's possible that by the time you finish purchasing your last part in order to start your build, a better/cheaper/faster/stronger part may come out.

For example, the much anticipated Samsung 840 SSD releases in a couple weeks and is priced at about the same price as an 830 (at least the 128/120 GB model). Why would I purchase an 830 now? I'd either wait and purchase an 840 or wait and pay less for an 830 (I am assuming a price drop). This kinda stuff happens with parts all the time. Maybe it's not necessarily newer versions of stuff, but sales and deals happen all the time.

That said, here is a good starter build for a mid-high end gaming build:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ksDb

To explain:
- The Intel Core i5-3570K is the gaming CPU sweet spot right now. You can get a Core i7-3770K for about $100 more, but the gaming performance increase will be only be marginally better (though for applications the difference can be significant).
- The Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus or Evo are the arguable best bang-for-buck air coolers on the market right now. You can do better, but you'd have to spend about $75+.
- The specified ASUS mobo is imho a great all-around board for most gaming builds. Enough of nearly anything a typical gamer might need for the life of the rig. ASUS is arguably the top mobo vendor right now as well.
- Samsung RAM ain't all that pretty (though I like em) but do the job that fancier/sleeker RAM can't.
- Right now, it seems the 1.5 TB HDD is a sweet spot. HDD prices change all the time though.
- Any new build should have an SSD if possible. The Samsung 840 is supposed to be nice and its fairly priced imho.
- The nVidia GTX 660 Ti is a solid mid-high end GPU for 1920 x 1080 resolution and high setttings. You could do better and you could do worse, but it's really about how much you want to spend.
- Seasonic PSUs are arguably some of the best right now.

Cases are subjective. Sound cards are almost unecessary for gaming. My selections for all of the above can and may change at any time due to price and what's out there and available. Hope it makes sense. Hope it helps.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:12 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Oh I forgot to tell you what monitors I'm using!
Right now I'm using a samsung 300/350 as my main screen (24"). I'm playing games on this screen. The other screen is a weak Acer P205H (21"). I'll buy a new one later.

I have some questions about what you just explained to me:

1. If I understand you correctly, the best Mobo I can get right now for a gaming computer is an Intel Core i5-3570k. It's like the top right now on the market? Is there something better than that?
2. Do you have something else to suggest as a cooler? Those seem pretty cheap, no?
3. Am I better with a samsung RAM or the Corsair RAM I was suggesting in my own build (the corsair vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB)?
4. What is a SSD? Is it like an HHD? If so, what's the difference between a SSD and an HHD (maybe I'm just stupid and it's the same thing)?
5. Will I be fine with the PSU I have right now? I don't remember the brand, but I know it's 700 watts.

I'll be taking a look to the samsung 840.

Thanks for answering dude. I really appreciate it :).
I know I'm totaly dumb, but that's why I came here.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:43 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Alright so I went on the link you sent me and I chose some computer parts between my build I suggested and your build you suggested.
What do you think of this build now: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ktxA

Is it possible also that my power supply and my current graphic card aren't compatible with the motherboard ASUS? I foud out what power supply I have and I think it's not compatible with any ASUS motherboard. I have a thermaltake W0317 700 watts. I also tried to find the ATI Radeon HD 5770 in the list and I couldn't find it. Does this mean that it's not compatible?

Waiting on your thoughts. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:49 am 
Little Foot
Little Foot

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 124
The 5770 is compatible but it is 3 generations old and most newer games won't run above medium settings very well. My 5870 can barely keep up with Portal 2. I didn't read your other posts but for gaming, you want to put most of your money into an upgraded video card.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:22 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Yeah that's what I said in my other posts.

I know I'll have to change my graphic card, but I'm gonna buy a new one after I bought all the other parts. I'm not in a hurry for a new PC. Just taking some advices since it's gonna be soon.

Otherwise, any suggestions on the graphic card maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Can somone answer the questons I asked please? I really need to know.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:02 am 
Klamath
Klamath

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 286
Metadom wrote:
Can somone answer the questons I asked please? I really need to know.
Thanks!

Some of us have lives. Though I do not, so...

Metadom wrote:
Oh I forgot to tell you what monitors I'm using!
Right now I'm using a samsung 300/350 as my main screen (24"). I'm playing games on this screen. The other screen is a weak Acer P205H (21"). I'll buy a new one later...

You should be able to run both monitors with a mid-high to high-end GPU with no problems (for most applications, but again, depending on what you want to do). If you find that 24-inch and 21-inch monitors setup is adequate, there is no reason to replace either monitor imho.

Metadom wrote:
...If I understand you correctly, the best Mobo I can get right now for a gaming computer is an Intel Core i5-3570k. It's like the top right now on the market? Is there something better than that?...

Based on price, the best CPU or processor (not mobo, which is short for motherboard) per dollar for gaming is an Intel Core i5-3570K. I stated this in my previous post below.
hindolio wrote:
...The Intel Core i5-3570K is the gaming CPU sweet spot right now. You can get a Core i7-3770K for about $100 more, but the gaming performance increase will be only be marginally better (though for applications the difference can be significant)...

Should you get the 3570K or the 3770K? Google "3570k vs 3770k" and do some research, look up prices and decide for yourself is the best answer I can offer.
Metadom wrote:
...Do you have something else to suggest as a cooler? Those seem pretty cheap, no?...

That is the point. The Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus/Evo is cheap, effective and appropriate for the typical enthusiast-level gaming build. What is it you want to do with this build though? If you want maximum overclockability and to be able to get the highest benchmarks possible out of a 3570K CPU, then yes the Hyper 212 is not for you. You will want a totally custom water cooling solution that might be half the cost of this entire rig. And in between the Hyper 212 and custom w/c, you can spend $75 - $125 on a high-end air cooling solution that will get you perhaps 5 degrees cooler at ambient. Imho, this scenario is a bit like the 3570K vs 3770K question - incremental performance increase for a lot more money. But that's for you to decide. Here are a couple high-end air coolers, but there are many more:
Noctua NH-D14
Phanteks PH-TC14PE
Incidentally, I think the above will cool about as well as the Corsair H100 All-In-One water cooler. I've read reviews that state the H100 is great, but I've read forum posts from users who don't give it that much credit.
Metadom wrote:
...Am I better with a samsung RAM or the Corsair RAM I was suggesting in my own build (the corsair vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB)?...

From all that I know to be in this world, that $250 Corsair RAM is a waste. Probably for any application, but I dunno. At least for gaming they are. From my knowledge, which really is not complete, gaming will benefit from RAM up to 1866 Mhz pretty much. Practically, you can buy decent 1600 Mhz rated RAM and overclock it, too. So what's the point of 2400 RAM I don't know. Maybe someone else can elaborate.

Do you have to get the Samsung RAM? No. The main issue with it methinks is that it's not particularly attractive. Almost any decent RAM will suffice actually. Imho, just don't spend too much or spend too little. 8 GB of decent 1333 or 1600 RAM will do for gaming.
Metadom wrote:
...What is a SSD? Is it like an HHD? If so, what's the difference between a SSD and an HHD (maybe I'm just stupid and it's the same thing)?...

SSD = Solid State Drive
HDD = Hard Disk Drive
HDDs are older technology, mechanical storage devices that have moving parts. SSDs are newer tech with no moving parts. SSDs are much faster but more expensive. They are very useful for placing your OS and select programs and will give your PC some serious speed for boot up and those applications.
Metadom wrote:
...Will I be fine with the PSU I have right now? I don't remember the brand, but I know it's 700 watts...

If it's this:
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.a ... =1844#Tab0
...you should be fine. I would try to recycle it if at all possible. It could probably run any single GPU ou there right now, too.
Metadom wrote:
...I also tried to find the ATI Radeon HD 5770 in the list and I couldn't find it. Does this mean that it's not compatible?...

Modern GPUs have no issues with compatibility with motherboards, as they are all PCI-Express (or I guess PCI) interface parts. PCI-E are standard interfaces in modern mobos.

Good job on pcpartpicker. That site rocks. Imho, you can keep the Corsair H100 - as long as you make sure it will fit okay in your yet to be selected case. Change the RAM though, as $250 is crazy. And definitely add a 128 GB SSD (256 GB if budget allows). Those are my thoughts. I'm certain some will agree and some will not :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:11 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Alright thanks for answering and sorry for the urge. I'm just really excited and into it I guess.

1. For the CPU, I guess I'll stick with the Intel i5-3570k. It's one of the best out there with the HD graphics 4000 model and the price is reasonable. The i7-3770k has the same HD graphics and is not that different at all.

2. I forgot to precise I'm not gonna overclock the computer. I don't know how and anyway, I don't feel safe to do it. I don't think I'll need to overclock the computer anyway to play games. So I guess for the CPU cooler, a cheap one like you are suggesting could be enough. Do you have any more suggestions on this though? Something around 50$ maybe?

3. For the RAM, I actually wasn't looking the MHz. I was looking for the GB. I was like "gawd 16GB is big". Is it possible to get a 1600MHz with 16GB?

4. For the HDD/SSD, lot of people like you told me to get an SSD. DO you have some more brands to suggest to me?

5. For my PSU' yes it is the one you linked me. So it's compatible and good? Alright, good news.

Do you suggest me to buy a simple 256 GB SSD or a 128GB SSD + an HDD?

And also.... you might be mad at me.... I forgot something important X.X. I actually don't want to play games only, but I'd like to stream them. I don't think it's gonna be a big deal, since I heard all people need to stream is a good CPU and the i5-3570k can easily handle it. However, do I need a better RAM?


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:08 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Alright so after I've been working on the build, tell me what you think of this one: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kzx6

CPU: i5-3570k
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
MOBO: MSI Z77-G43
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3-1600MHz
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB + Samsung 830 (256 GB)
Optical drive: LG GH24NS90

Waiting on your thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:08 am 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Made some changes: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kBEI

CPU: i5-3570k
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
MOBO: ASRock Z77 Extreme 4
RAM: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB DDR3 -1600MHz (2x8GB)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB + Samsung 830 (256 GB)
Optical drive: LG GH24NS90

Tell me what you think of this build! Thanks again btw for taking your time to answer me. It's really appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 pm 
Little Foot
Little Foot

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 124
Only thing I would change is drop your RAM to 8GB. You won't need more then that. Everything else looks fine. You can take the ~$40 you save from the RAM and get an ASUS or Gigabyte mobo.. IMO they are higher quality brands then ASRock.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:20 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Well, if we look at the components of the motherboards ASUS P8Z77-V (for example) and ASRock Z77 Extreme 4, the ASRock motherboard has the same components and even more components than the ASUS P8Z77-V. Maybe I'm wrong, but does it means that the ASRock is better?


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:23 am 
Klamath
Klamath

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 286
Yeah you're excited :mrgreen:

In the opinions of many here and there, re mobos:
ASUS > Gigabyte > ASRock / MSI / Others

This is based on a couple of factors though - reliability (or at least perception of) and customer service. ASUS is the biggest mobo vendor and they don't really make many low-end boards. Gigabyte I think is 2nd and makes budget to high-end boards. ASRock is relatively new as a brand (although they were part of ASUS or something like that a while ago, and might be purchased by ASUS soon) and make budget and high-end boards.

Imho, a mobo ain't that special, but you want it to work as it's supposed to. I want it to be virtually invisible and never have to think of it after installed. Ever. For that piece of mind, I would personally consider spending more for the sake of reliability and good customer service (in case anything does happen).

For gaming, 8 GB (4 GB x 2 sticks) is all you need. If you need more in the future, you can always add another 8 GB for a total of 16 GB. From my knowledge of history, by the time you may need more than 16 GB for gaming, this build will probably be obsolete and not even worth upgrading. But, as always, I could be wrong and hey RAM is cheap so meh.

Imho, you got a nice build going. Imho, get what's cost-effective. Depending on the sale, that means a 128 GB or 256 GB SSD is almost the same GB/$. So if you can afford the bigger, go with that. Samsung, Intel, Plextor are arguable top tier brands. Other top SSDs include the OCZ Agility 4, OCZ Vertex 4, Crucial M4, some Kingston model (I forget which), some Corsair model, and so on. I think for typical gamers, a 128 GB SSD plus at least a 1 TB HDD is desirable, and more is more desirable.

Imho, it's irrelevant whether you plan to overclock or not. If you want to maximize your PC in terms of performance and longevity, you will have no choice but to overclock now or later - not for applications, but for gaming, as newer games will probably push processors more and more.

Imho, the best $50 cooler is a $30 Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo :mrgreen: The 3570K stock cooler kinda sucks even without overclocking so it's just makes sense to replace it in order to get lower temperatures on your CPU.

As this is going to be a gaming build, you will need a dedicated GPU, as that Intel HD4000 integrated graphics will not be enough. I may have suggested it before, but I think a GTX 660 Ti would fit nicely for this build if you plan on gaming on that 24-inch 1920 x 1080 panel. Something like this might work:
EVGA 02G-P4-3664-KR GeForce GTX 660 Ti FTW
GIGABYTE GV-N66TWF2-2GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti

I think games are games. Streaming involves dependency on your internet connection and speed. So you're on your own there.


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 Post subject: Re: My first custom computer, need help!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:29 pm 
8086
8086

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 21
Alright,.

How about that now: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kI2m

I'm thinking about EVGA Geforce GTX 680 4GB for my futur GPU or an ASUS Radeon HD 7970 3GB, but I don't know which one is better. I believe since the 680 is way more expensive it's better, but I really don't know. Can you tell me more about those GPUs?


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