Quantcast

Maximum PC

It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:05 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:07 am 
Team Member Top 250
Team Member Top 250
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 456
Location: Ann Arbor
Just stopping in and saying hello and seeking some folding advice for my new system. My Q9300 system with 9800GTX+ GPU is getting painfully slow so I've begone collecting parts for a new 4770K system with GTX 760 GPU.

Since it will be folding I'm looking for a good cooling solution. Looking at the H80i or the 212 Evo. Very different avenues but I know the 4770K runs hot but it also doesn't overclock well so I could probably do just fine with the Evo using push/pull. But if it is folding I want to keep it as cool as possible for a nice long CPU life. It won't be a dedicated folder, it will be my everyday folding in the background by day, going balls out at night rig.

The new folding software is radically different, no more bigWU flags or using command line to set things up? Any advantage still to running it in a Linux VM for more PPD? Any of the new folders even know what any of that is?? Haha, sit out of 2 years any everything changes.

Thanks,

Q1


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:51 am 
Coppermine
Coppermine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:45 pm
Posts: 636
Location: Richmond, Va.
quickone wrote:
Just stopping in and saying hello and seeking some folding advice for my new system. My Q9300 system with 9800GTX+ GPU is getting painfully slow so I've begone collecting parts for a new 4770K system with GTX 760 GPU.

Since it will be folding I'm looking for a good cooling solution. Looking at the H80i or the 212 Evo. Very different avenues but I know the 4770K runs hot but it also doesn't overclock well so I could probably do just fine with the Evo using push/pull. But if it is folding I want to keep it as cool as possible for a nice long CPU life. It won't be a dedicated folder, it will be my everyday folding in the background by day, going balls out at night rig.

The new folding software is radically different, no more bigWU flags or using command line to set things up? Any advantage still to running it in a Linux VM for more PPD? Any of the new folders even know what any of that is?? Haha, sit out of 2 years any everything changes.

Thanks,

Q1


Hi. I have upgraded to the 4770k and it does fine. The 212 EVO should take care of things. As for aircooling vs Water cooling I've only seen about a 5 or 6 degree difference and not enough to cinvince me water cooling is better. I have this 4770 OC'd to 4.6 Ghz and have had no temp problems and I am air cooled. In short, I have seen no difference in temp than I had with the previous 2600k I ahad in here.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:52 pm 
Folding for Elena
Folding for Elena
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 2766
Location: F@H Beta-testing in Beaumont, Texas
Hey Q1 glad to see you friend. I've been away from the forums, but not folding so here's what's up. The emphasis now for the $ is on GPU folding which finally has a quick return bonus the way the CPU WUs have had. Great buys for points are the 660 Ti and prob the new 760. I have one coming on Monday and they are about the same price so in a few days I will know which is best for folding--prob the 660 Ti as it has a couple hundred more stream processors than the 760 which has 1152, check the nvidia specs exactly, though for real world GPU stuff they calin the 760 is 15-20% better than the 660 we will soon see.

Also cool is that Linux now has a GPU client built into the 7.3.6 Linux. Bad part is it can't be tweaked and OCd like using Windows-based mfr tweaks like EVGA Precision. They say the Linux is still a bit better ppd wise on the CPU, but when you are getting <10k ppd with CPU and 70k ppd with a GPU like 660 Ti who really cares, do what's easy. Drop me a note if yo have any problems.

Also I might say that with the Haswell and Ivy Bridge-E soon to come out, you may not want to spend the cash on the 4770 whose socket is going away very soon so no upgrade path. the 1150 or better yet 2010 (I think) socket will be around quite a bit longer, google this stuff since lots of info been released even in the last week. Cheers. Mike.

Also the -bigbeta is still around but you need a minimum of 16 or 24 threads to get those WUs, multi-proc mobo for sure. The [H] are the premier experts in that area if you want to learn from them. They helped me get up and running on the 1 machine 1 set up, a server mobo running linux. Diversification is the answer, since who knows the future.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:24 pm 
Team Member Top 250
Team Member Top 250
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 456
Location: Ann Arbor
Michael McCord MD wrote:
Also the -bigbeta is still around but you need a minimum of 16 or 24 threads to get those WUs, multi-proc mobo for sure. The [H] are the premier experts in that area if you want to learn from them. They helped me get up and running on the 1 machine 1 set up, a server mobo running linux. Diversification is the answer, since who knows the future.


16-24 threads!?!? When the i7 920 came out it blew everyone away with its 8 threads and the Bigavg flag it could do. 24 threads is beyond what the average enthusiast can do. I'm taken aback by the ppd these days, it's pretty much 10x what it used to be. The [H] have a folder doing over 5M ppd! That used to be our teams total ppd.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:14 am 
Folding for Elena
Folding for Elena
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:05 pm
Posts: 2766
Location: F@H Beta-testing in Beaumont, Texas
The [H] have become expert in using certain types of 4-CPU server mobos with certain AMD server chips that somebody from their team rewrote BIOS so they could overclock them (most server chips aren't supposed to need that). Anyhow, they are skilled at it as you can see. 1 million ppd is fairly common among them.

What really helps the ppd is the QRB-quick return bonus. SO if a big thread mobo gets a WU back way under deadline they get huge bonus. For a long time, only CPU-based WUs got it, since Stanford didn't have a good way of standardizing GPU returns. Now they do and my ppd was helped lots by them as I have lots of GPU folders.

Early results of the 660 Ti v 760 for PPD is edging toward the 660 Ti due to the much higher stream proc count. They may drop in price soon due to 760s release. I will buy them over the 760 for pure folding.

WARNING*** VJ just put in his blog about the release of Core 17 for GPU that give AMD GPU a 10X gain in ppd over previous v only about 2X for NV. Read what he wrote and investigate before buying. See how quick things change around here?


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:07 pm 
Team Member Top 50
Team Member Top 50
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:50 pm
Posts: 875
Location: WI, USA
Yeah, it's been a fun research ride lately for GPU info and numbers. With the addition of the red GPU team being able to get back into things, choices haven't been easy. If my research is correct, a 7970 GHz ed. seems to be able to pull around 100k PPD for $370 and a 250+ W TDP (~385 PPD/W & 270 PPD/$). For comparison, a 780 seems to be getting around 150k PPD for $650 and 250 W TDP (~600 PPD/W & 230 PPD/$). I agree that the best middle ground that I see is with the 660 Ti.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:57 am 
Team Member Top 250
Team Member Top 250
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 456
Location: Ann Arbor
Michael McCord MD wrote:
Early results of the 660 Ti v 760 for PPD is edging toward the 660 Ti due to the much higher stream proc count. They may drop in price soon due to 760s release. I will buy them over the 760 for pure folding.

WARNING*** VJ just put in his blog about the release of Core 17 for GPU that give AMD GPU a 10X gain in ppd over previous v only about 2X for NV. Read what he wrote and investigate before buying. See how quick things change around here?



Interesting about the AMD update. I know the folding community spends quite a bit on GPU's solely based on folding performance. I'm surprised it took this long for AMD to work out the issue.

What kind of PPD are you getting on your 760 and 660ti? Googling I get pretty inconsistent results.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:04 pm 
Team Member Top 250
Team Member Top 250
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 456
Location: Ann Arbor
Just bought the Gigabyte 760 Windforce 3x. It might be slightly less PPD than the 660ti but it will be around longer. Either way, it is going to be a HUGE jump from my 9800 GTX+.

At $260 I'm planning on picking another one up to SLI later on when the 760's start going on sale around the holidays.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:05 am 
Team Member Top 50
Team Member Top 50
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:50 pm
Posts: 875
Location: WI, USA
I decided to pick up a 7970 yesterday :twisted: My main folding rig is down for now :(
HDD is failing or some garbage like that. I also have to upgrade from XP to 8 Pro.

Hopefully I'll get that worked out before the 7970 comes in. My 660 Ti was pulling around 55k PPD on the 'older' new version of core_17 (set the beta flag!). It's been out since May 24 or so. I've seen numbers reported with a newer version of core_17 about 5-10k PPD higher on the 660 Ti. I'm guessing that you will see similar numbers with the 760. I prefer the 660 Ti over the 760 due to the slightly lower TDP (170 vs 150). I went with the 7970 because 100k PPD while having a 210 TDP.

Fun times for all! :lol: :twisted:

I'm going to be looking to get rid of my 660 Ti and my 650 Ti once the 7970 comes in. Let me know if you're interested in either of them. Its been working exceptionally well for me when I've been able to use it.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:41 pm 
Team Member Top 50
Team Member Top 50
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:05 am
Posts: 2437
Location: Sold my soul to Satchboy for an avatar
Just a couple bits of my $.02:

Those pre-built, self contained water systems are really not much different than a quality air system. Low flow pumps and a lack of reservoir really limit their cooling. The real determining factor is whether or not you have enough airflow in your case. If you do, then a quality HSF will work just fine. Most people who see a big benefit from those kit water coolers are people who have a box that is trapping hot air inside. Moving the radiator to the wall of the case keeps the CPU heat from recirculating inside the case and reducing the cooling ability of the HS.

I still have a pair of 9800gtx+ cards churning away as well. As the Doc mentioned, diversity is the key. Now that AMD is coming into it's own with the new core, I may finally upgrade them on the AMD path. I was thinking about replacing them with 660's, since the low power consumption on those means I wouldn't need to upgrade the PSU. I'll keep my nVidia cards going in at least one other box. Although, I have to say, after clearing up the error I initially had with the new core, I don't seem to be getting any more of the new WUs that use it.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Back again x^4, need new build advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:55 pm 
Team Member Top 250
Team Member Top 250
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 456
Location: Ann Arbor
bbies1973 wrote:
Those pre-built, self contained water systems are really not much different than a quality air system. Low flow pumps and a lack of reservoir really limit their cooling.


I actually just bought the Evo, I was leaning towards the H80i until the last second, when I realized, for $50 a couple degrees isn't going to make a big difference. Especially since the OC on a 4770K depends more on luck of a good CPU than cooling.

bbies1973 wrote:
I still have a pair of 9800gtx+ cards churning away as well. I was thinking about replacing them with 660's, since the low power consumption on those means I wouldn't need to upgrade the PSU. I'll keep my nVidia cards going in at least one other box. Although, I have to say, after clearing up the error I initially had with the new core, I don't seem to be getting any more of the new WUs that use it.


I went from 8-10K PPD with the 9800gtx+ to 25-30k PPD on the old cores. I just switched to v17 and it went up to ~60k PPD. I'm not sure of the PPD difference between the 760's and 660's but the difference is 30w power wise. I only have a 500w PSU in my old rig otherwise I'd keep the 9800 going as well. Once I finish buying the parts for the new one I'll have both folding as I eventually plan on getting a 2nd 760 as they're only $250 and I'm sure will drop a bit later.


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group