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 Post subject: Bridging wired networks with wireless
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:25 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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This is hardware related so I am going out on a limb with this one. Right now I have a 2 node network setup in my office. My old house was 1 story and wired so networking was no problem. My new house is 2 stories and there is no way in hell I am going to try and run cable to the living room and bedrooms. What I would like is to get a wireless router to replace my ancient 1 port Linksys and then get a WAP or Bridge for the living room. From there I would hook up a switch for my Xbox and a few other ethernet enabled devices I have down there.

Here is the problem....price. An 802.11g router is maybe $40 or $50 after rebate right now (Netgear) but the 802.11b bridges are about $80. I am looking for a cheap solution to get bridge the gap with wireless. Is there a cheap WAP out there that won't suffer from compatability problems with a Netgear g router? Also, would it be possible to get 2 of the routers and use them to bridge the gap and just ignore the WAN portion of the router in the living room?


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 Post subject: Re: Bridging wired networks with wireless
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:48 pm 
Northwood
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DaBrain wrote:
This is hardware related so I am going out on a limb with this one. Right now I have a 2 node network setup in my office. My old house was 1 story and wired so networking was no problem. My new house is 2 stories and there is no way in hell I am going to try and run cable to the living room and bedrooms. What I would like is to get a wireless router to replace my ancient 1 port Linksys and then get a WAP or Bridge for the living room. From there I would hook up a switch for my Xbox and a few other ethernet enabled devices I have down there.

Here is the problem....price. An 802.11g router is maybe $40 or $50 after rebate right now (Netgear) but the 802.11b bridges are about $80. I am looking for a cheap solution to get bridge the gap with wireless. Is there a cheap WAP out there that won't suffer from compatability problems with a Netgear g router? Also, would it be possible to get 2 of the routers and use them to bridge the gap and just ignore the WAN portion of the router in the living room?


you can't just put a WAP in the middle of nowhere and have it communicate with the router wirelessly. i'm not sure about bridges though.

i'd try using a cantenna of some sort and expand the range of your router wide enough for the house instead.

you didn't mention if the devices in the living room and bedroom are wired or wireless. they'd need to be wireless for the above to work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:16 pm 
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buy a 802.11g router/AP and stick it as close to the center of your house as possible. connect it to your wired router or hub, whatever you have now, using a regular ethernet cable.

from here you have 2 choices. you can buy 802.11b/g adapters for all the computers upstairs, or put another wireless router and a wired switch upstairs as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:04 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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I guess I didn't explain it very well. So let me do this:

Image

I am trying to find the cheapest solution to this. I don't mind if the WAP or bridge is 802.11b as long as the cost is low but right now the g bridges are barely more than the b ones. Thus I was asking if I could use 2 routers in a wireless bridged mode as they are cheap. Getting wireless cards for the devices downstairs is not an option as the Xbox ones are $80 each and the music receiver has only cat5 out, no usb.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:16 am 
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DaBrain wrote:
am trying to find the cheapest solution to this. I don't mind if the WAP or bridge is 802.11b as long as the cost is low but right now the g bridges are barely more than the b ones. Thus I was asking if I could use 2 routers in a wireless bridged mode as they are cheap. Getting wireless cards for the devices downstairs is not an option as the Xbox ones are $80 each and the music receiver has only cat5 out, no usb.


I don't think there would be any problem with that, but I havent tried it.

I am 80% certain that would work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:57 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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We have a D-Link DI-624 connected to a Linksys BEFSR41.
The D-Link router with the latest firmware update will give you speeds up to 108Mbps.

One thing though, we have had problems with DHCP (probably because we have the two routers daisy chained...but on a small network it's no big deal), so keep in mind you might want to move to static IPs if you have problems later.

Since you're on a budget, here's what I suggest:
Router: DI-524, 54Mbps, $58.99 or DI-624, 108Mbps, $80.99
Bridge/AP: DWL-G700AP, $65-$20 MIB = $45

And then the cards if you decide to go wireless for the PCs.
PCI, 54Mbps: DWL-G510, $49.99 - $10 MIB = $39.99
PCI, 108Mbps: DWL-G520, $57.99 - $10 MIB = $47.99
CardBus, 54Mbps: DWL-G630, $38-$10MIB = $28
CardBus, 108Mbps: DWL-G650, $59.50 - $10MIB = $49.50

Hope that helps.
BTW, you'll want to use a wired connection to make changes to the wireless router.

Modem -> Wireless router -> PCs and bridge -> switch -> xbox


Last edited by SomeGuy on Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:11 am 
Northwood
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DaBrain wrote:
I am trying to find the cheapest solution to this. I don't mind if the WAP or bridge is 802.11b as long as the cost is low but right now the g bridges are barely more than the b ones. Thus I was asking if I could use 2 routers in a wireless bridged mode as they are cheap. Getting wireless cards for the devices downstairs is not an option as the Xbox ones are $80 each and the music receiver has only cat5 out, no usb.


you shouldn't need 2 routers in one network, regardless of your approach to this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:07 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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cigar3tte wrote:
DaBrain wrote:
I am trying to find the cheapest solution to this. I don't mind if the WAP or bridge is 802.11b as long as the cost is low but right now the g bridges are barely more than the b ones. Thus I was asking if I could use 2 routers in a wireless bridged mode as they are cheap. Getting wireless cards for the devices downstairs is not an option as the Xbox ones are $80 each and the music receiver has only cat5 out, no usb.


you shouldn't need 2 routers in one network, regardless of your approach to this.


I know. Since the routers I was seeing were on average $30+ cheaper than the WAPs I was curious if I could save some money and use a router as a WAP.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:10 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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SomeGuy wrote:
Since you're on a budget, here's what I suggest:
Router: DI-524, 54Mbps, $58.99 or DI-624, 108Mbps, $80.99
Bridge/AP: DWL-G700AP, $65-$20 MIB = $45


Both of those routers have MIRs too! 1 question about the port forwarding capabilities of DLink routers. Can I forward ports like this:

Wan 88 -> LAN 80

Or is the forwarding restricted to the same port for the internal server? Just double checking as I have seen some that won't.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:11 am 
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DaBrain wrote:
I know. Since the routers I was seeing were on average $30+ cheaper than the WAPs I was curious if I could save some money and use a router as a WAP.


pretty much all wireless routers allow you to do that, although the process is not always clear.

edit: forgot the word "wireless"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:28 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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DaBrain wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Since you're on a budget, here's what I suggest:
Router: DI-524, 54Mbps, $58.99 or DI-624, 108Mbps, $80.99
Bridge/AP: DWL-G700AP, $65-$20 MIB = $45


Both of those routers have MIRs too! 1 question about the port forwarding capabilities of DLink routers. Can I forward ports like this:

Wan 88 -> LAN 80

Or is the forwarding restricted to the same port for the internal server? Just double checking as I have seen some that won't.


OOps, I forgot to see if they had MIRs...

Not sure on the filters, I havent really messed around with filters and port forwarding too much on it, but here's the relevent screens for you (I think #3 is the one you are looking for):

1
2
3


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:53 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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SomeGuy wrote:
DaBrain wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Since you're on a budget, here's what I suggest:
Router: DI-524, 54Mbps, $58.99 or DI-624, 108Mbps, $80.99
Bridge/AP: DWL-G700AP, $65-$20 MIB = $45


Both of those routers have MIRs too! 1 question about the port forwarding capabilities of DLink routers. Can I forward ports like this:

Wan 88 -> LAN 80

Or is the forwarding restricted to the same port for the internal server? Just double checking as I have seen some that won't.


OOps, I forgot to see if they had MIRs...

Not sure on the filters, I havent really messed around with filters and port forwarding too much on it, but here's the relevent screens for you (I think #3 is the one you are looking for):

1
2
3


Awesome. I am sold. DLink wireless here I come.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:07 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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How are you going to hook up the PCs? Are they just going to stay wired, and then the stuff in the other areas of the house will get wireless hookups?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:14 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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SomeGuy wrote:
How are you going to hook up the PCs? Are they just going to stay wired, and then the stuff in the other areas of the house will get wireless hookups?


Everything will be wired, the wireless is just to bridge the 2 wired connections. Although I do have plans to put a SFF pc in the kitchen with some custom recipe software for the wife with a touchscreen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:28 am 
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Sounds like a fun plan, Brain ... good luck. :)

The kitchen PC is a great idea ... I've been toying with the idea of building one for my mom ... she has a floor to ceiling cupboard FILLED with recipies, recipe books, cooking magazines, etc ... I'd love to have all those recipies at the touch of a finger.

However, I quickly realised who would have to scan all those recipies. :?

And, no matter how well I did it, they would never be properly organised on that PC. That cupboard may be full, buy my mom can reach in there, eyes closed, and pull out the recipe she needs on the first try .. every time.

It is kinda spooky, actually. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:31 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Talk about lag, but I just bought my DI-524 and the G700-AP. They should be in by next week I hope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:23 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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So the DWL-700AP has a client and repeater mode but it doesn't appear that the G700AP does. This is highly annoying as I may not be able to connect these 2 devices together. It says on the D-Link site that it will, but I have no clue how to do it:

http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=326

Quote:
The DWL-G700AP Access Point is Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11g compliant, meaning that it can connect and interoperate with other 802.11g compatible wireless routers, access points, and adapters. The DWL-G700AP is also backwards compatible with 802.11b networks and devices.


Quote:
Works With:
54Mbps1 Wireless Router (802.11g) DI-524
54Mbps1 Wireless PCI Adapter (802.11g) DWL-G510
54Mbps1 Wireless Laptop Adapter (802.11g) DWL-G630


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:11 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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DaBrain wrote:
I guess I didn't explain it very well. So let me do this:

I am trying to find the cheapest solution to this. I don't mind if the WAP or bridge is 802.11b as long as the cost is low but right now the g bridges are barely more than the b ones. Thus I was asking if I could use 2 routers in a wireless bridged mode as they are cheap. Getting wireless cards for the devices downstairs is not an option as the Xbox ones are $80 each and the music receiver has only cat5 out, no usb.


Why two routers? If it's to support two wireless network types, maybe you should consider staying to one wireless type for now. It'll be cheaper.

You should be able to otherwise replace the one router with a core switch that has an AP plugged in to it. You shouldn't need to use two wireless devices to bridge the two wired connections.

If you plan things properly from the your core switching device, you get cost-efficiency and better performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Bridging wired networks with wireless
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:18 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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This is what I would do for this particular solution:

You only need to run one wire to the upstairs or install an AP that will bridge your wireless connection to the wired.

On your main level, get a core switch (any switch will do, even the switch on your router). Install a wireless AP to it. Run your wired connection to your internet boundary router (if it is no already acting double duty as your core switch). Run your firewall device (if you have one) between the net connection and the boundary router. I use IPCOP, it's a firewall/router/VPN all in one http://www.ipcop.org. Run another wire out to a floor switch that will service the majority of that level.

From upstairs you can then run a switch with another AP, or just run one wire to an easy to access point in a closet or something. From there run your wiring to where you need it. Or install your AP antenna out on the wall, in a hallway near the ceiling. Keep it away from ventilation ducts.

It shouldn't cost you more than the price of a couple switchs and two AP's, or even one AP - assuming your mount the antenna for the first AP in a good place you may not even need the upstairs switch to service your wireless devices, just your wired one's.

Those AP's would be the one's you'd bridge together. No need for wireless routers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:46 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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I got a wireless router simply because they were cheaper than a WAP and my aging 1 port linksys needed replacing. I now have a Wireless router (DI-524) and a WAP(DWL-G700AP). The WAP will have a 4 port switch hanging off it to plug in my Xbox and a few other devices. The only trouble I am having now is that I can't get the WAP into a client mode to connect to the wireless router so that the devices downstairs have a connection to the net. It seems that the firmware for the G700AP doesn't have a mode tab to change it from AP mode to client mode.


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