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 Post subject: 10/100 Router to Gigabit Hub?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:11 pm 
Coppermine
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Here's the background:

I'm in the process of putting together the parts list for a stripped down version (affordable) of the DM2004. The ASUS board comes with Gigabit Ethernet.

It would be cool to have a gigabit connection between this new beast I want to build, and my wifes PC which I'll put a gigabit card into. Then tie the two together with a new gigabit hub.

I've already got a Motorola SB5100 cable modem that's capable of DISOCS 2.0 (excuse me I can't speel) - 30Mbs. It's currently hooked up to the wifes PC on the USB port (OK, I was being cheap. But it works). Her PC connects to my current PC thru an existing 10/100 hub and ICS. (I know, don't rub it in.)

My cable provider, Charter currently has 3Mbs "home" connections and 10Mbs commercial connections. I figure its only a matter of time (years... I know) before their provided speed exceeds my wifes current USB 1.1 max speed (windows reports it as 12Mbs).

Now the question:

If I plug the cable modem into a 10/100 router then plug that into the proposed gigabit hub, it should work, in theory? Am I right or wrong?

If it works I should (technically) be able to get the fastest thoughput on both the Lan and the Wan.


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 Post subject: Re: 10/100 Router to Gigabit Hub?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:16 pm 
King of All Voodoo2 Cards
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Rooke wrote:
If I plug the cable modem into a 10/100 router then plug that into the proposed gigabit hub, it should work, in theory? Am I right or wrong?

If it works I should (technically) be able to get the fastest thoughput on both the Lan and the Wan.


The Gigabit Hub will speed up internal transfers between the two computers.

I'm also fairly positive that using ethernet instead of USB will also speed up your cable transfers. I've never done it personally, because I hate USB, but one of my clients said they noticed an increase of speed when I took them off USB and moved them over to ethernet. I believe that was because USB has more overhead then vanilla ethernet.

But to answer your question, that would give you the fastest tranfers between the cable modem and the two computers.


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 Post subject: Re: 10/100 Router to Gigabit Hub?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:53 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Rooke wrote:
If I plug the cable modem into a 10/100 router then plug that into the proposed gigabit hub, it should work, in theory? Am I right or wrong?


I doubt you'll see any difference there as that cable modem is still going to talk at 100 Base...not to mention, I hope you're confusing terms here, because what you'll need is a switch to handle the two connection types. Without that, gigabit will only talk to gigabit and 100 Base will only talk to 100 Base.

Of coarse transfers between you two should be like lightning though.


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 Post subject: Re: 10/100 Router to Gigabit Hub?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:39 pm 
Coppermine
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furball146 wrote:
I hope you're confusing terms here, because what you'll need is a switch to handle the two connection types. Without that, gigabit will only talk to gigabit and 100 Base will only talk to 100 Base.


Why a switch? The Linksys hub I want to get says it will autodetect 10/100/1000.

It seems to me that the port from the hub to the router/modem ( with a switchover cable between the router and modem ) should run at 10/100 and the two 1000 ports should run at 1000.

How is that different than having the modem connected to a 10Mbs router which is then connected to a 10/100 hub thats then connected to two different 100Mbs ethernet connections in the PCs?

What am I missing?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:02 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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With a hub, the autodetect will only sense what's plugged into a specific port, it won't facilitate any communication between two different bases connected on different ports.

The only problem with what you said in that second paragraph is that the 1000 base won't talk to the 100 Base with the hub, that's why a switch will need to be involved to allow that.

Now with that setup, you could manually specifiy the link speed to 100 base on each machines...but what's the point of having gigabit at that point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:45 pm 
Coppermine
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furball146 wrote:
The only problem with what you said in that second paragraph is that the 1000 base won't talk to the 100 Base with the hub, that's why a switch will need to be involved to allow that.


Let me see if I got that staight. If the 1000 base won't talk to the 100 base, then a 100 base won't work with a 10 base either?

The motorala manual for the SB5100 shows the modem (let's assume 10 base) to a hub (let's assume 100/10) connected to a few PCs (let's assume a mix of two 100's and a 10).

Are you saying that the communications between the two 100 base PCs will be limited to 10 base because the 10 base PC and modem are on the hub?

Or is this limit only between 1000 base and 100/10 base?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:09 pm 
Coppermine
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My bad. :(

After doing a lot more research, and double checking what I *thought* I'd previously read as a Gigabit hub, was a Gigabit switch - Linksys EG005W 5 port. My proposed setup should work.

Thanks for all the help Furball! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:19 pm 
Coppermine
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They actually still sell 'hubs'?..I don't think I've used one since 1994 :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:51 pm 
Coppermine
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Yeah, the marketplace is full of them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:56 pm 
Willamette
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Well, it's kinda like 10 mbps and 100 mbps. For everything on your network to run at 100 mbps, everything must be 100 mbps compatible. Now, since your hub will be gigabit ethernet, the link between your ethernet card and hub will be gigabit, but between your router and hub, only 100 mbps.

My whole thing is why dontcha just buy a Gigabit ethernet Router/Switch combo?

Also, what you were trying to say is DOCSIS 2.0 (Data over Cable Service Interface Specification) and no COAX trunk can go above 10 Mbps on current coax cable, as its throughput is maxed at 10mbps theoretical, until it hits the fiber optic cable.

However, yes as in most HFC cable networks we are Hybrid Fiber Coax, but you still have the coax... So the limitation is still there.

Eventually everything will run on Fiber and QAM 512. So speeds will be in the Terabits for Internet2 in about 15 years.

Right now it's HFC trunk networks with QAM 64-256.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:34 am 
Coppermine
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Your network is only going to be as fast as the slowest link. The increased b/w on your LAN will give you increased PC to PC transfer speeds...but IntigatorX is correct. Its like buying a farari cuz you have a long wide driveway, but your street is a narrow bumpy dirt road ;)

I ran with a 802.11b and 10Mbps LAN for yeeeears since web surfing was my primary requirement. Once I setup my HTPC and required video streaming and moving MPEG4 files around I finally upgraded my LAN to 100Mbps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:30 pm 
Coppermine
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InstigatorX wrote:
My whole thing is why dontcha just buy a Gigabit ethernet Router/Switch combo?


Who makes that? I looked on Linksys's site, and none of the switches are combo'd with a router.

But, the fastest router they have is the BEFSX41 - 10/100 on both the LAN and WAN side, plus firewall + VPN. After doing a lot more homework, I dedided to get that instead of the BEFSR11. That get's me closer to that theoretical 30Mbs in the very distant future. And it gives me other options as far as local net connections.

I may ditch the giga switch tho, and just do a crossover cat6 between the 2 PCs. Now I've got a couple of different configs to think about. As soon as I get the diagrams worked out into text, I'll upload them to my next post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:03 pm 
Networking with a passion!
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Quote:
I've already got a Motorola SB5100 cable modem that's capable of DISOCS 2.0 (excuse me I can't speel) - 30Mbs. It's currently hooked up to the wifes PC on the USB port (OK, I was being cheap. But it works).


USB 1.1 tops out at around 10 Mb per second, plus there is a lot of overhead involved in packaging the data in a "USB wrapper" and then stripping that wrapper off at the modem. Unless you get a fast Ethernet hub I wouldn't waist my time and money going above 10 Mb/sec on cable Internet access.

www.dalantech.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:18 pm 
Coppermine
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Dalantech wrote:
USB 1.1 tops out at around 10 Mb per second, plus there is a lot of overhead involved in packaging the data in a "USB wrapper" and then stripping that wrapper off at the modem. Unless you get a fast Ethernet hub I wouldn't waist my time and money going above 10 Mb/sec on cable Internet access.

www.dalantech.com

Thanks, but that's why I'm upgrading my network configuration.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:28 pm 
Coppermine
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Ok, here's my latest proposed list of components and possilbe configurations:
Code:
Components:

Computer A
  Gigabit Adapter#1  ( On Mobo - 10/100/1000 )
  Gigabit Adapter#2  ( On Mobo - 10/100/1000 )

Computer B
  10/100 Adapter     ( On Mobo )
  Gigabit Adapter#3  ( 10/100/1000 )

Gigabit Switch ( 5 ports - 10/100/1000 )

10/100 Router w/4 port switch (Linksys BEFSX41)

Cable Modem  (Motorola SB5100)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Configuration #1:
                            Modem
                              |
                           Router                   
  Computer A                  |              Computer B
Gigabit Adapter#1 <--> Gigabit Switch <--> Gigabit Adapter#3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Configuration #2:
                            Modem
  Computer A                  |              Computer B
Gigabit Adapter#2 <------> Router <------> 10/100 Adapter

Gigabit Adapter#1 <--> Gigabit Switch <--> Gigabit Adapter#3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Configuration #3 (maybe):
                            Modem
  Computer A                  |              Computer B
Gigabit Adapter#2 <------> Router <------> 10/100 Adapter

Gigabit Adapter#1 <--> Cat6 CrossOver <--> Gigabit Adapter#3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Personally, I'm for config #1 for no other reason than it' seems easier to setup, and I'll only have one network to look at in Task Manager, and it gives me the most options for any additions to the network.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:38 am 
Willamette
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Rooke wrote:
Who makes that? I looked on Linksys's site, and none of the switches are combo'd with a router.


I thought you were meaning enterprise. I was thinking along the lines of an Catalyst 3548 XL switch.

Why do you need gig-e anyways?

100 mbps is plenty for todays small home office.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:20 pm 
Coppermine
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InstigatorX wrote:
Why do you need gig-e anyways?

100 mbps is plenty for todays small home office.

I'm building a new "future-proof" PC based on the DM2004. It's got the ASUS P5AD2 mobo that has 2 built in giga LANs. I currently use my *old* PC to backup my wife's game data across a 100Mbs LAN, and it ( 2GB ) takes forever - ~1.5 hours. :shock:

So, since I'm spending all this time and money on building a new PC, I might as well upgrade my network at the same time - which I *hope* lasts about 10 years before I have to upgrade it again.


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