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 Post subject: Game Network problem - Supreme Commander:FA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:25 am 
8086
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Bare with me as I'm not well versed in networking. Still learning as much as I can as I go. I'm having an issue with some friends connecting in game of SupCom:FA. So, here's the setup:

2 friends A&B on one network
1 friend C own network
1 friend D own network
1 friend E own network
-----------------------------
5 players total

Now, when we all connect to game friend A and friend C cannot connect to each other in the game showing "NIL" in the Ping Box. We have been trying hard to find a solution so Friend A and C can connect to each other in the game but we can't figure out a solution.; I figured I'd drop a line down here and see if anyone could help with our problem. We have forwarded all ports for the game that it requested in also. I appreciate any help. Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:42 pm 
Hired Gun
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Location: N 47° 04.525 W 122° 17.315
Please give more information on the setup. Are all of the computer in the same location and just behind their own routers? How are you all connecting to eachother, are you trying to do this over the internet? We need to know all of the network equipment you have in place, modems, routers, WAP's, and switches, Wireless or Wired or a combo of the two? Also the OS's on all the computers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:43 am 
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All the computers are in different locations.

A/B are in one house on the same router - NY
. A Wired
. B Wireless
C is in a different house behind a router - NY
. Wired
D is in a different house behind a router - NY
. Wired
E is in a different house behind a router - Indiana
. Wired

Yes we are all trying to connect over the internet.
A and C cannot connect to each other.
We are all connecting through routers.

Everyone is using Windows 7 (x64) Pro and Ultimate.

I don't know what WAP is so if you can explain how to find that out Im sure I can get the info you need.

Any other info? Just let me know. Thanks for the reply Hitman!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:57 am 
Hired Gun
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Location: N 47° 04.525 W 122° 17.315
Make sure to open ports 6112 (UDP and TCP) and 9103 (UDP) on your router and/or firewall. Can Computer A connect to all the other computers? Does either A or C have a firewall installed other then windows firewall? If nothing else works try putting one computer at a time in the DMZ. If it still doesn't work with one computer in the DMZ put both of them in the DMZ. If it works then you know it's a port issue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:48 am 
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Yeah we have all forwarded the ports like some other sites suggested including 6112,9103, and 30350-30351. Although C can't because his brother won't alow him to touch his network since its his.

"A" can connect to everyone.
"C" can connect to everyone.

All other computers CAN connect to each other and A & C with no problems.

A only has a router firewall. I'm not sure about C. Ill have to find out.

After doing some homework I understand that you can only open ports for one IP address on a router? Correct me if this info is wrong though, but, if thats the case maybe since A is 1 of 2 computers behind the router is that screwing thinsg up? And, if it could be, how do I have them set the router up so both can have the ports opened or whatever may may need to be done?

Again, thanks for the reply!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:19 pm 
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drew6625 wrote:
Yeah we have all forwarded the ports like some other sites suggested including 6112,9103, and 30350-30351. Although C can't because his brother won't alow him to touch his network since its his.

"A" can connect to everyone.
"C" can connect to everyone.

All other computers CAN connect to each other and A & C with no problems.

A only has a router firewall. I'm not sure about C. Ill have to find out.

After doing some homework I understand that you can only open ports for one IP address on a router? Correct me if this info is wrong though, but, if thats the case maybe since A is 1 of 2 computers behind the router is that screwing thinsg up? And, if it could be, how do I have them set the router up so both can have the ports opened or whatever may may need to be done?

Again, thanks for the reply!


What you have here is a fundamental limitation when using a NAT router and gaming console.

A NAT router allow multiple devices behind the router to share the ONE public IP address made available by your ISP. That works great and without much hassle for traffic headed OUTBOUND from your network. However, when using an Internet gaming console, there’s always going to be a certain amount of UNSOLICITED traffic from the other gamers in your group. IOW, traffic that’s initiated from the Internet and INBOUND to your network. But if you have more than one user behind that NAT router, where is the router supposed to forward that traffic? Using your example, should traffic from C be forwarded to A or B? And how can the router differentiate between the two? The problem is, the only differentiating factor is the port(s) and that’s insufficient information. Of course, it works just fine for a single user since the router just BLINDLY forwards any traffic that appears on those ports to a fixed IP. IOW, if it comes in on port 6112, it must be intended for A. But as soon as you add user B, it becomes ambiguous. Who should it be forwarded to, A or B? There’s simply no other information available to disambiguate between them.

In short, most gaming systems don’t support multiple users behind a NAT router, at least not very well. Instead, each user needs a unique public IP. Now any possible ambiguity is eliminated since each user can be differentiated based on that public IP.

The only way you’re going to be able to solve this problem (besides each user having their own public IP) is if the gaming console allowed you to assign ports to individual users. IOW, user A would use ports A, B, and C, while user B uses ports X, Y, and Z. In that way, ambiguity is eliminated based on port usage. But I don’t know of many gaming consoles that work that way. I suppose if each user had their own gaming console and it allowed you to specify alternative ports that would work as well. But here again, most gaming consoles use only a well-known, fixed selection of ports (if they didn’t, it would make it very difficult for others outside your network to find you).

NAT routers and gaming consoles just aren’t a good mix, at least if you need to support multiple users behind any given router.


Last edited by eibgrad on Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:18 am
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Supcom does allow you to change ports in the Gas Powered Games menu.It is set at "Port 6112". So if that could help fix our issue, what should be the ports for the each of us. Also, we are all on Computers not a game console :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:04 am
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drew6625 wrote:
Supcom does allow you to change ports in the Gas Powered Games menu.It is set at "Port 6112". So if that could help fix our issue, what should be the ports for the each of us. Also, we are all on Computers not a game console :)


As long as each user is running their own instance of the game from their own machine, and as long as ALL the ports necessary to play the game can be changed, then it should work. According to PortForward.com, that’s more than just port 6112, it includes ports 9103, 30350-30351 as well. You can’t just do it in part, it’s all or nothing.

http://portforward.com/english/routers/ ... mander.htm

To be honest, I’m skeptical that you can actually change ALL the ports. Most games use well-known, fixed ports for INBOUND traffic. If for no other reason than allowing arbitrary changes would make it far more difficult to manage the game since those changes need to be communicated to all other players. It’s just simpler to force everyone to use specific ports. However, I could imagine they might allow ONE port, such as 6112, to be changed if it was only used for outbound purposes. But again, that wouldn’t be sufficient to solve your problem. You must be able to disambiguate ALL of the ports the game requires.

But for the sake of argument, let’s assume you can change ALL the ports. What ports should you use instead? Assuming the game itself doesn’t impose restrictions, anything from 1024 thru 65535 should work. Then just forward those ports to the relevant machine.


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