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 Post subject: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:40 pm 
Little Foot
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I want to see what to expect in the work force (c++ programming). So i was thinking if anyone here can give me a project to do that is equivalent to what an employer might ask an entry level c++ programmer to do.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:41 pm 
Willamette
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Unfortunately, can't really help you there. I don't use C++ in my jobs, and the entry level stuff is not stuff from scratch. It is all updates to currently existing programs to meet a business need, usually with a mentor. You don't give a new entry level employee a full sized project to start from scratch.

Things I would give a new person:
Update current screen to add new fields.
Update current app to add some small functionality.

Maybe do some debugging/troubleshooting or documentation of code. That sort of thing. Your mileage may vary in a real C++ shop.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:33 am 
SON OF A GUN
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I can't speak for C++ specific jobs, but when I "started" I had a bunch of "update this in this app" tasks. Except I only had one app to work with, and it was a 200k line solution.

Now, less than a year later, it is *my* application and I am responsible for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:45 am 
Java Junkie
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xxmainframexpxx wrote:
I want to see what to expect in the work force (c++ programming). So i was thinking if anyone here can give me a project to do that is equivalent to what an employer might ask an entry level c++ programmer to do.


The problem with this request is that entry level programmers rarely tackle projects alone. Usually, you'll be handed a function to tune or a small block of code to finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:44 am 
SON OF A GUN
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Jipstyle wrote:
xxmainframexpxx wrote:
I want to see what to expect in the work force (c++ programming). So i was thinking if anyone here can give me a project to do that is equivalent to what an employer might ask an entry level c++ programmer to do.


The problem with this request is that entry level programmers rarely tackle projects alone. Usually, you'll be handed a function to tune or a small block of code to finish.
I haven't written an app from scratch yet. I am writing a HUGE module add on though.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:10 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Jipstyle wrote:
The problem with this request is that entry level programmers rarely tackle projects alone. Usually, you'll be handed a function to tune or a small block of code to finish.


Oh man, I wish had that when I first started. Goodness. I was tackling an XSLT project two months into my first, entry level job out of college. I always worked alone, even in bigger teams down my professional career, i was still working alone (but reporting to a team or working alongside senior devs to get stuff done).

As far as C++ projects are concerned, good point, that's a toughy. He should look into developing using C#, Java or Ruby on Rails - there are tons of projects he can committ too, get experience and put on a resume.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:12 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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xxmainframexpxx wrote:
I want to see what to expect in the work force (c++ programming). So i was thinking if anyone here can give me a project to do that is equivalent to what an employer might ask an entry level c++ programmer to do.


I can't help you with C++, but if you want to get some relevant development practice, look into C#, Java, PHP or Ruby on Rails. You can always join an open-source project on Sourceforge or Codeplex and work on bugs and committ to an upgrade to a version. Look into Sourceforge or Codeplex for C++ projects where they might need help and join their group. That's a good one for starters.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:43 am 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
The problem with this request is that entry level programmers rarely tackle projects alone. Usually, you'll be handed a function to tune or a small block of code to finish.


Oh man, I wish had that when I first started. Goodness. I was tackling an XSLT project two months into my first, entry level job out of college. I always worked alone, even in bigger teams down my professional career, i was still working alone (but reporting to a team or working alongside senior devs to get stuff done).

As far as C++ projects are concerned, good point, that's a toughy. He should look into developing using C#, Java or Ruby on Rails - there are tons of projects he can committ too, get experience and put on a resume.


Yeah .. I think it really depends on the company and the development practices that they embrace. What you describe would rarely happen in an workplace dedicated to agile development (working alone doesn't allow for much peer review, for instance) but is relatively common in workplaces that still use a waterfall dev model.

I second the recommendation for C# .. being proficient with that language almost guarantees a job these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:57 am 
SON OF A GUN
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Jipstyle wrote:
I second the recommendation for C# .. being proficient with that language almost guarantees a job these days.
I would say it is beyond almost.

C# is win though, seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone give me a project to do.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:01 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Jipstyle wrote:
DJSPIN80 wrote:
Jipstyle wrote:
The problem with this request is that entry level programmers rarely tackle projects alone. Usually, you'll be handed a function to tune or a small block of code to finish.


Oh man, I wish had that when I first started. Goodness. I was tackling an XSLT project two months into my first, entry level job out of college. I always worked alone, even in bigger teams down my professional career, i was still working alone (but reporting to a team or working alongside senior devs to get stuff done).

As far as C++ projects are concerned, good point, that's a toughy. He should look into developing using C#, Java or Ruby on Rails - there are tons of projects he can committ too, get experience and put on a resume.


Yeah .. I think it really depends on the company and the development practices that they embrace. What you describe would rarely happen in an workplace dedicated to agile development (working alone doesn't allow for much peer review, for instance) but is relatively common in workplaces that still use a waterfall dev model.

I second the recommendation for C# .. being proficient with that language almost guarantees a job these days.


Not to be trite, but I also recommend Ruby on Rails. My buddy, a C# guy, got into Ruby on Rails and he's never looked back since. In fact, even I'm thinking about it myself! :P

C# or RoR, they're both winners. :)

edit to add: Yeah, Agile shops are very much into pair programming. That's fine though. :) I wish I had more experience working in an Agile shop, much of my work has been in the .NET realm and Microsoft's tools aren't exactly Agile minded (plus a lot of MS shops are traditional developer minded).

My RoR friend is HUGE on Agile. I'm big on it too, but most of my work is based off of personal projects and I usually only take bits and pieces of it. For the most part, much of my pet projects follow these mantras:

* Code is truth. So documentation is really rare for me.
* Clients don't know what they want. So I do iterative releases that addresses a small problem/request set.
* Test driven is the way to go. In some cases, test driven is how I base my contracts. If all tests meets the criteria, I've met my base requirement, thus can do a deploy or at least satisfy the client.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:16 am 
Smithfield
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I think C# or Java is being used these days for when performance isn't exactly an issue. Like for a web browser, but not for an emulator (unless the hardware is ancient). But I'd lean on C# more than I would Java since I find that more on preferences in programming fields than Java. But the two languages are practically identical, just keywords are different.

C++ and C is more for embedded systems or when performance is a requirement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:28 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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LatiosXT wrote:
I think C# or Java is being used these days for when performance isn't exactly an issue. Like for a web browser, but not for an emulator (unless the hardware is ancient). But I'd lean on C# more than I would Java since I find that more on preferences in programming fields than Java. But the two languages are practically identical, just keywords are different.

C++ and C is more for embedded systems or when performance is a requirement.


Not true, C# is pretty fast and so is Java. You can even write hooks into C++ within C# (through unsafe code). While I agree that C/C++ is used more in embedded systems, I disagree about the whole 'when performance is a requirement' statement against C#.

For one, imagine a C++ program:

Code:
MyType ptr* = new MyType();

ptr->doSomething();
//....yadda, yadda....

exit



A C++ program that creates a pointer but doesn't delete it. Get enough of these undeleted pointers and watch memory leaks slow down your system.

C# doesn't have that problem, .NET has a garbage collection mechanism that does it for you. It's also optimized performance; it runs when you're running out of memory, when your system is idle, etc.

Also, there's the .NET Compact framework and Java has a compact framework as well. For embedded systems, so it's an unfair assesment to both Java and C# to say that they're both used when "performance is not a requirement."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:38 am 
Smithfield
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It's what I hear about C# and Java, since there's more overhead involved.

And this class I'm taking that uses C++ basically summed up that C++ is a power user's language, you have to know what you're doing otherwise you can screw things up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:47 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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LatiosXT wrote:
It's what I hear about C# and Java, since there's more overhead involved.

And this class I'm taking that uses C++ basically summed up that C++ is a power user's language, you have to know what you're doing otherwise you can screw things up.


I think a lot of people get into the mindset of C++ being more powerful because it doesn't have a framework like C# or Java does. However, it's kind of dumb for us to think of those languages as all being equal to each other, let alone C++.

You can write poor C++ code. I don't care how much of a "power users language" it is, you can screw up C++ code like it's going out of style. Don't delete pointers? You're screwed.

It doesn't matter what language you're using, if you don't know what you're doing, your app is screwed no matter what. C++, C#, Java? Don't matter. As a testament to the power of C#, Microsoft Research released an Operating System built primarily on C#. The OS kernel and various system components are built off of C#. The only time they used Assembly and C/C++ is to boot the system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:53 am 
SON OF A GUN
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I contest that you need to use C++ to write "fast" windows applications. I don't think the overhead is that much, honestly.

Just like you don't need to hand-write asm optimizations into your applications anymore soon will the performance lines between C++ and .NET/JVM stuff be so blurred the differences will be very small and likely not worth the effort.

C/C++ will have its place, for sure. Operating systems will always need to be written in a language like this. Embeded systems, sure. 99% of all the other applications not in those two groups won't see much (if any) difference in runtime speed and there will be lots of difference in development and testing speed.

I firmly believe that working with C# is faster than C++ and debugging C# is easier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:19 pm 
Little Foot
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What are your thoughts on vb11.net over C#?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:32 pm 
Smithfield
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xxmainframexpxx wrote:
What are your thoughts on vb11.net over C#?

Visual Basic is horrible.

I'd take C++ over Visual Basic any day. And I hate working with C++.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:44 pm 
Little Foot
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WOW. I just bought a C# book and started learning C#. So far this language is so frickin sweet. Thanks guys!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:16 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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xxmainframexpxx wrote:
WOW. I just bought a C# book and started learning C#. So far this language is so frickin sweet. Thanks guys!


Great! I'm glad you like it! :) I enjoy programming C#, and have been since I started after college. Let us know if you need help, we're here to help!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:34 pm 
Little Foot
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Little late of a comment, but Java lets you add sections of C/C++ native code as well when speed is an absolute requirement (which happens very rarely) or when you need access to lower level hardware components. If I recall correctly, even Sun themselves use this in the Java standard library. Something like:
Code:
public static native void move();

and then implemented in an outside C/C++ file:
Code:
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_MyClass_move(JNIEnv* env, jobject obj) {
    //do stuff...
}


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface


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