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 Post subject: VC++ question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:36 pm 
Thunderbird
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I am on Christmas vacation now from work. I want to attempt learning coding a C++ Application using VC++ 6.0 and MFC. I have been using VC++ for about two years now on and off since I took the classes at my college with personal hobbies.

This is another one of those personal hobby projects. Does anyone know any good websites, online tutorials, or recommend any books toward this particular aspect of C++ programming?

Thanks in advance to everyone for the help, comments, and opinions on all resources.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:17 pm 
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Don't use MFC. It's a terrible attempt at making programming easier.

Learn the Win32 API and get good at it.
http://msdn.microsoft.com


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:22 am 
Thunderbird
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Kybo_Ren wrote:
Don't use MFC. It's a terrible attempt at making programming easier.

Learn the Win32 API and get good at it.
http://msdn.microsoft.com


Ok, I did a lot of research and reading on this. Can anyone recommend any particular tutorials or books on Win32 Programming and API using VC++ 6.0.

I found two really good online tutorials, but when you attempt to learn something as in-depth and detailed as this it does take a good amount of practice, reading, researching, and again more practice.

Again all help is greatly appreciated. MSDN did not have any half decent tutorials. They will come in useful when it comes time to learn about the particular routines and their required and optional parameters.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:33 am 
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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books
Is one of the best


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 Post subject: I second that
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:49 am 
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I second Kybo_Ren's recommendation.

Petzold's book is one of the best introductions to Win32 programming.


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 Post subject: Re: I second that
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:33 am 
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int_main_void wrote:
I second Kybo_Ren's recommendation.

Petzold's book is one of the best introductions to Win32 programming.


Thank you for the recommendations. What about Hart's book it they try to bundle with it? Are his books any good?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:49 am 
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Quote:
What about Hart's book it they try to bundle with it? Are his books any good?


I haven't read Hart's book, so I cannot offer any personal opinions. If you have any Unix background, the book synopsis & user reviews suggest that it makes a Unix-to-Windows transition easier.[/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:11 pm 
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int_main_void wrote:
Quote:
What about Hart's book it they try to bundle with it? Are his books any good?


I haven't read Hart's book, so I cannot offer any personal opinions. If you have any Unix background, the book synopsis & user reviews suggest that it makes a Unix-to-Windows transition easier.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I have not had an opportunity to mess with Unix. My online college offers some course in this topic, but all the courses are required for the Web Development/Design degree. I am in the CIS degree. I am actually considering going back after completing the degree work and getting these course just for the knowledge.


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 Post subject: Unix
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:14 am 
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baldeagle

I found Unix programming to be fairly straightforward. From what I recall, some pretty complicated code can be written without extensive background knowledge (i.e., you can dive in pretty quickly).

When I first began teaching myself Win32 programming, I had to wrap my brain around some strange (for me) concepts before I began to understand what was going on behind my code.

The analogy that comes to mind is that you execute your program in a Unix environment, while, in Windows, you contort your program so Windows will execute it. That may be a bit oversimplified, but I think it's a fair analogy.

I would recommend going back for the extra Unix training. Yes, you can teach yourself the topics outside of academia, but school imposes a discipline that forces you to see it out to the very end. I know that, for me, I will start something with the greatest of intentions, but oftentimes "real-life" starts crowding out my study time. Before too long, I find myself involved in something else.

Either way, best of luck with your learning.


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 Post subject: Re: VC++ question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:48 pm 
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I would stongly recommend limiting yourself to using the STL if possible. If you need somethign a little broader, the Boost libraries are a good choice. If you're doing gui stuff, you might want to take a look at SWT.

As a last resort, use win32.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:47 pm 
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Quote:
I would stongly recommend limiting yourself to using the STL if possible. If you need somethign a little broader, the Boost libraries are a good choice. If you're doing gui stuff, you might want to take a look at SWT.


That's a very good suggestion. Though the Boost libraries are third-party, and you still have to learn an API, it's best to go with one that works cross-platform.

And for a GUI, Qt is the best (IMO).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:30 am 
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Kybo_Ren wrote:
Quote:
I would stongly recommend limiting yourself to using the STL if possible. If you need somethign a little broader, the Boost libraries are a good choice. If you're doing gui stuff, you might want to take a look at SWT.


That's a very good suggestion. Though the Boost libraries are third-party, and you still have to learn an API, it's best to go with one that works cross-platform.

And for a GUI, Qt is the best (IMO).

Although the Boost libs are third party, there is a good chance (according to Dude-X) that they'll become first party before much longer. And as you pointed out, they are not platform specific - especially THAT platform. :)

Haven't tried Qt yet. I just picked up an O'reilly book on Swing for $10 from Fry's so it looks like I'll be spending some more time w/ Swing before trying another gui lib. I did screw around with a gtk gui building a couple of weeks back for maybe half an hour. Pretty interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:45 pm 
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Ok, MFC is not THAT terrible. What's more, there's a quite a large chunk of code out there in the industry written in it. Could Microsoft have done a better job wrapping the Win32 SDK and trying to make it OO? Sure they could have. But it's not horrible.

If you do want to some learning using Visual C++, it provides a decent wizard for creating a basic MFC "Hello World" application. The wizard throws together a lot of the boilerplate code for you to explore to see how the Document and View classes are hooked up. A good book to supplement you in your endeavor is Programming Windows With MFC by Jeff Prosise.

That being said, I agree that learning the basics of Win32 programming is important to really understanding MFC. You need to know what a message pump is in order to understand the wacky things they do with it with their message map macros.

Petzold's book is good for this but if you want to have some fun learning Win32 programming, grab Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus by Andre LaMothe. Before it goes into DirectX it gives you a crash course in win32 and GDI.

Happy programming!
-a


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