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 Post subject: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:26 am 
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Well, I'm picking up where I left in programming. I wanna continue my B.S. degree in C.S. I took a course in C & Assembly language programming as well as a brief intro into C++. Not wanting to wait till I find/manage the time for school (cuz I'm working full-time), I decided to go ahead & learn on my own & kinda prepare myself ahead. To get things started, I bought a textbook called "C++ How to Program," by Deitel along with its LAB book, and it does a beautiful job teaching the language. The book is so great that I take it with me anywhere I go. My plan is to first learn C++ & Java, and after that I wanna get into Internet/Wireless Internet & mobile programming. From there, hopefully, I'll learn more of the other languages like PHP, Python, C# & Visual Basic. Anyways, not wanting to go off topic, I simply have 3 questions, and I really appreciate it if those of you with much experience in the field would help steering me into the right direction as I walk my path through programming:

1- Well, first off, I read in another post someone suggesting learning/sticking with one language (C++ specifically) for the next two years of college & then start learning Java. I wanted to actually try learning both C++ & Java at the same time, seeing that the concept & idea behind both languages are somewhat similar, especially that both languages will be introduced/taught by the same author. Do you think I should do that or should I just really stick with C++ for now?

2- Other than C++ & Java, what languages out there you think are really important to use & have knowledge of?

3- Where I can go to get a certifcation for the language(s) I know how to program with?

I guess that's it for now, but I'd be grateful for any extra advise to help me get up to speed with the programming world. Thanks to you all in advance. :)


Last edited by SeVeN on Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am 
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SeVeN wrote:
1-Do you think I should do that or should I just really stick with C++ for now?


C is very close to Java. Sun would love for Java to take over the world but I personally would stick with learning C ++. Most apps are programmed today with C++ in mind, so you would have a good chance of finding work after school. However, Java is right there, so really it boils down to what you want. I know a little C, but right now focusing on Java 2.

Quote:
2- Other than C++ & Java, what languages out there you think are really important to use & have knowledge of?


C#, Visual Basic.net I would say are priorities.

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3- Where I can go to get a certifcation for the language(s) I know how to program with?


You can get Microsoft Developer Certifications, Sun Certifications, Oracle, Sybase.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:51 pm 
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Quote:
2- Other than C++ & Java, what languages out there you think are really important to use & have knowledge of?

Python and Perl are imnportant languages to learn if you're a *nix guy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:22 pm 
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Thanks for your replies...just what I needed to know. :D I think imma stick to my plan & learn both languages at the same time, since both are very close to eachother. InstigatorX, thanks for the links, they do just fine ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:46 pm 
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SeVeN wrote:
1- Well, first off, I read in another post someone suggesting learning/sticking with one language (C++ specifically) for the next two years of college & then start learning Java. I wanted to actually try learning both C++ & Java at the same time, seeing that the concept & idea behind both languages are somewhat similar, especially that both languages will be introduced/taught by the same author. Do you think I should do that or should I just really stick with C++ for now?


C++ is one of the base languages for Java, so you can get away with learning C++ for a while then moving onto Java. I took C++ for a couple of years before I switched to Java/C# and while I didn't carry much, I carried my coding style over a lot. The one caveat I warn people with is C++ and OOP, it's not as elegantly implemented in C++ as it is in Java. You'll learn a lot about OOP in Java, however, C++ will teach you a lot of the fundamentals about Systems Programming, and it will eventually lead you back to C Programming.

SeVeN wrote:
2- Other than C++ & Java, what languages out there you think are really important to use & have knowledge of?


That depends on usage. I'm using PHP for a web project in school, I would use Python for CGI stuff, as well as Perl. Different languages have different strengths, but C++/Java make good foundations for OOP, but C/C++ is known for Systems programming. There really isn't a golden rule for languages, just learn as much as you can and teach yourself to be able to learn languages properly.

SeVeN wrote:
3- Where I can go to get a certifcation for the language(s) I know how to program with?


Sun and Microsoft have their own certs. Sun has a Java certification while Microsoft has MSDA or something like that.

SeVeN wrote:
I guess that's it for now, but I'd be grateful for any extra advise to help me get up to speed with the programming world. Thanks to you all in advance. :)


To be honest, just have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions. Making mistakes is crucial, because without, you'll never really learn. A lot of languages take a lot from different languages, and different languages have different uses. So don't be afraid to learn more than one. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:17 am 
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DJSPIN80, thanks for pointing out for me where Java & C++ might differ. I'll definitely won't be holding back on asking any questions. I really want to learn as much as I could & hopefully will master both languages...and to do that, I'm trying to take advantage of the fact that I'm highly motivated right now. :D Again, thanks for the extra advice DJSPIN80. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:27 am 
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SeVeN wrote:
1- Well, first off, I read in another post someone suggesting learning/sticking with one language (C++ specifically) for the next two years of college & then start learning Java. I wanted to actually try learning both C++ & Java at the same time, seeing that the concept & idea behind both languages are somewhat similar, especially that both languages will be introduced/taught by the same author. Do you think I should do that or should I just really stick with C++ for now?

I might have said that - at least it sounds like something that I would say. If I did, here is my justification. For some reason, people seem to get caught up in trying to 'learn' 6 languages in 8 months. Guess what, they basically learn how to do hello world 6 different ways. Pick one or two general purpose languages like Java and/or C++ and learn how to program. Solve problems like those at Sphere. Spend some time at TopCoder. Learn the language inside and out, and just as importantly, learn how to approach and solve problems.

I've spent many hours in the ACM room at school this semester and witnessed way too many pissing matches between c++ and java, java and perl, os'es, certain algos, hell, even BFS vs DFS. Usually there is an instigator that doesn't know jack about any of the things being discussed and 9 times out of 10, they're the "I know c, c++, java, javascript, html, basic, visual basic, perl, python and cobol" types that never took a freakin minute to actually think about the code they're writing. If you can call copying code out of a book or searching for code on the net - "writing code". Throw a simple 3 minute TopCoder easy problem in front of them and you start to realize that they not only don't know the language, which was obvious, but they don't even know how to approach solving a basic problem. They're totally lost, drowning in a bathtub, despite knowing 6 different ways to swim.


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:36 am 
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InstigatorX wrote:
C is very close to Java. Sun would love for Java to take over the world but I personally would stick with learning C ++. Most apps are programmed today with C++ in mind, so you would have a good chance of finding work after school.

Java isn't taking over the world (in a programming sense)? It is extremely popular. Has tons of industry support from players besides Sun (I could probably rattle of 15 companies w/o looking on the net). Do a monster search and you'll see that plenty of jobs are available for 'experienced' developers of either cpp or java. MS doesn't copy things on accident. Oh, I could go on an on, but I won't.... :)

Before I forget, Ada might be a good candidate to consider. Many regular application jobs are going overseas, so you might want to spend a little time with Ada and see about a job at Boeing, Raythoen, Lockheed, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:11 am 
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Gadget wrote:
I might have said that - at least it sounds like something that I would say. If I did, here is my justification. For some reason, people seem to get caught up in trying to 'learn' 6 languages in 8 months. Guess what, they basically learn how to do hello world 6 different ways. Pick one or two general purpose languages like Java and/or C++ and learn how to program. Solve problems like those at Sphere. Spend some time at TopCoder. Learn the language inside and out, and just as importantly, learn how to approach and solve problems.


THESE are GREAT words. This is what I pretty much tell people at school, no sense learning 6 languages if all you can do are basic problem solving techniques. I know one guy who literally knows 5 languages, however, he can solve any problem given to him using any of the languages he knows. In essence, he knows the boundaries as well as the capabilities of the language and uses that language to its fullest extent.

Oh, and thanks for the link for the Sphere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:09 pm 
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Quote:
I might have said that - at least it sounds like something that I would say. If I did, here is my justification. For some reason, people seem to get caught up in trying to 'learn' 6 languages in 8 months. Guess what, they basically learn how to do hello world 6 different ways. Pick one or two general purpose languages like Java and/or C++ and learn how to program. Solve problems like those at Sphere. Spend some time at TopCoder. Learn the language inside and out, and just as importantly, learn how to approach and solve problems.

Agreed, this is great advice. One of my friends tried to be a "know it all" and speed-read a book on like 5 different languages in about a month.

Turns out, he always asks me for help on pretty much everything, even really basic stuff.

Learn a language and stick with it, then expand a bit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:42 pm 
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Don't hurt yourself by doing too many things in too little time. I tried that once and just fell back to my precious native C. But just slowly add, no need to rush unless you've goofed off in class and have your Grand Unifed [Insert Language Here] Program to turn in tomorrow. Then rush it ;).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:46 am 
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Gadget wrote:
SeVeN wrote:
1- Well, first off, I read in another post someone suggesting learning/sticking with one language (C++ specifically) for the next two years of college & then start learning Java. I wanted to actually try learning both C++ & Java at the same time, seeing that the concept & idea behind both languages are somewhat similar, especially that both languages will be introduced/taught by the same author. Do you think I should do that or should I just really stick with C++ for now?

I might have said that - at least it sounds like something that I would say. If I did, here is my justification. For some reason, people seem to get caught up in trying to 'learn' 6 languages in 8 months. Guess what, they basically learn how to do hello world 6 different ways. Pick one or two general purpose languages like Java and/or C++ and learn how to program. Solve problems like those at Sphere. Spend some time at TopCoder. Learn the language inside and out, and just as importantly, learn how to approach and solve problems.

I've spent many hours in the ACM room at school this semester and witnessed way too many pissing matches between c++ and java, java and perl, os'es, certain algos, hell, even BFS vs DFS. Usually there is an instigator that doesn't know jack about any of the things being discussed and 9 times out of 10, they're the "I know c, c++, java, javascript, html, basic, visual basic, perl, python and cobol" types that never took a freakin minute to actually think about the code they're writing. If you can call copying code out of a book or searching for code on the net - "writing code". Throw a simple 3 minute TopCoder easy problem in front of them and you start to realize that they not only don't know the language, which was obvious, but they don't even know how to approach solving a basic problem. They're totally lost, drowning in a bathtub, despite knowing 6 different ways to swim.


Yeah Gadget, I see your point & I agree with you totally. Learning how to use a language is one thing while knowing how to solve problems is another. I do agree with you that I should work on my skills on how to approach a problem as a beginner, rather than learning how to program with many languages as possible. This is actually what I want to get to in the end. Thanks for that Sphere link, btw, I was hoping to find some real-world problems, and that link do just that for me.



Cplusplus wrote:
Don't hurt yourself by doing too many things in too little time. I tried that once and just fell back to my precious native C. But just slowly add, no need to rush unless you've goofed off in class and have your Grand Unifed [Insert Language Here] Program to turn in tomorrow. Then rush it :wink: .


Thanks Cplusplus, I appreciate the advice. Orginally, I wanted to learn C++ only & then worry about any other languages out there. When I came to realize what OOP is & got to know that there's actually an analysis & desgin phase to writing programs & solving problems, it became my desire to really know how to work problems than knowing how to write a program. This is why I'm actually going through each & every problem in my textbook & lab manual, in hopes of learning some new techniques & have as much knowledge as possible dealing with problem sovling. When I got to see & know that Java wasn't really far from C++, I thought I'd push myself & work on building a solid understanding of all the basics & OOP using both Java & C++. To be honest, Deitel (the textbook I'm using) is so clear that I feel so comfortable about learning both languages in the next 2 years of my life using their textbook. Definitely, I'll adhere to what most of you said in here, and I'm not gonna push myself too far. It's always easier said than done. If I felt that it's too much of a task to accomplish to learn both Java & C++ at the same time, which is something I feel that I need to do to know my real limits, then I'll stick with C++ since it's the base for me, and then worry about Java later on. Please keep your replies coming, I really like to get as much information as I can possibably get about the subject. Again, thanks to all of you for your help. I really do appreciate it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:30 pm 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Gadget wrote:
I might have said that - at least it sounds like something that I would say. If I did, here is my justification. For some reason, people seem to get caught up in trying to 'learn' 6 languages in 8 months. Guess what, they basically learn how to do hello world 6 different ways. Pick one or two general purpose languages like Java and/or C++ and learn how to program. Solve problems like those at Sphere. Spend some time at TopCoder. Learn the language inside and out, and just as importantly, learn how to approach and solve problems.


THESE are GREAT words. This is what I pretty much tell people at school, no sense learning 6 languages if all you can do are basic problem solving techniques. I know one guy who literally knows 5 languages, however, he can solve any problem given to him using any of the languages he knows. In essence, he knows the boundaries as well as the capabilities of the language and uses that language to its fullest extent.

Oh, and thanks for the link for the Sphere.

Sphere is a very cool site. I just started there a little while ago and have 4 solutions submitted. I have a couple more problems finished, but I'm worried about the time outs on them. I'll probbly get around to submitting them a bit after the ACM regional on Nov 13.

Have you submitted any?


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 Post subject: Re: Learning C++ & Java
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:10 pm 
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Gadget wrote:
Have you submitted any?


No, I haven't the time to do so. Software Engineering is killing me right now, killing me in a good way of course. ;)


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