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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:50 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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MantaBase wrote:
And it acts wierd - when I close non-FF windows it actually goes UP!! Whats up with that?

That's sounds more like a web dev screwing around with JavaScript.

Gmail does the same thing to me in IE (...at work where I am forced to use this stupid retarded browser because of some window's admin retards that are stuck in 1997 - I really need a Unix workstation. =)).


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:22 pm 
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Gadget wrote:

The reason IE appears to use less memory is because the libraries are being loaded elsewhere - this is an old and well known trick that MS used against Netscape. This is partially the reason why the browser was integrated into the operating system. They could hide just how much memory IE was sucking up.

If you had a tool that was able to examine the total memory usage of an application, and not just the one IE process, you would probably conclude that IE is bloatware.

Microsoft has how many 1000's of products - how many of them are not bloatware?



Possibly. When you consider that the engine is already running as soon as the OS starts. And, you can't stop is 'cuz its the same engine running Win Explorer (at least thats what my toying around tells me).

Thus, it should appear smaller than FF and start much faster (as it does). Yet, with such a large advantage - it doesn't start much faster - and its still a hog. You should check the usage on the "Help Center". Now that is bloat ware.

Manta


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:54 pm 
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Actually I find Visual Studio to be quite efficient, especially considering the interface they have.

I also find that their C++ compiler is really quite top-notch. It's faster than MingW and generates better code. That can really only be expected, though... it's their OS; they better have a great compiler for it!

I don't use MS Office at all (or try not to). I don't use all the "features" provided by Word, so I just use OpenOffice. I still have to export it to Word' dipshit .DOC format so I can use the stuff at school, though.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:00 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Kybo_Ren wrote:
Actually I find Visual Studio to be quite efficient, especially considering the interface they have.

I also find that their C++ compiler is really quite top-notch.

My impressions of VS came from using VS6, which is just a horrible IDE and very noncompliant compiler (C++). I hear that the compiler and IDE are now much better.... I just have a hard time forgetting. =)


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:49 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Has anyone tried to profile azureus?


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:51 pm 
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To my knowledge, no, just alot of observations regarding memory and paging file use and computer sluggishness.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 12:02 am 
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Dexter wrote:
If it can't beat true compiled apps in a head to head race they'll just pull a nancy kerigan and wack them in the kneecaps to slow them down :)

btw I think you mean Tonya Harding. Kerrigan got bashed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:55 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Gadget wrote:
guess where I went this past weekend. =)


uuuuhhhh...the Sun campus? :D

BTW, I just picked up a book on Java 5. So far, it's interesting, I like the use of generics (similar to Template Types) and the enhanced for-loop. I have to admit, that after coding in C#, foreach loops have its uses. I still have to dig deep in the book, I have to check out Autoboxing/unboxing and a few other features.

I think that Java 5 is becoming my new fave language (next to C++, of course :P ).


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:59 pm 
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Gadget wrote:
Kybo_Ren wrote:
Actually I find Visual Studio to be quite efficient, especially considering the interface they have.

I also find that their C++ compiler is really quite top-notch.

My impressions of VS came from using VS6, which is just a horrible IDE and very noncompliant compiler (C++). I hear that the compiler and IDE are now much better.... I just have a hard time forgetting. =)

Ah, I will not argue with you there.

Horrible product. Absolutely horrible.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:31 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Kybo_Ren wrote:
Horrible product. Absolutely horrible.


The VS.NET 2003 isn't too bad at all, supposedly has 98% ANSI compatibility and better compiler options for optimizations. I hate to say this, but I'm pretty comfortable in GCC that I only VS.NET 2K3 for C# and that's about it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:31 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000
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Gadget wrote:
Beomagi wrote:
Depends on what it's doing. If you're calling routines that are highly optimized, then you're pretty ok. If you're creating you're own complex routines, then prepare for a sick waste of memory.

Let's see an example.


The programs done at where i work, the project (remake of scorched earth) couple of friends and i did freshman year (was an early java revision, 1.1 or 1.2, so it MAY be better now) where the frame buffer memory wasn't freed, taking up 40 MB for a 640x480 display. install shield 10's Java installer (noticable slower).

The marketing thing applies to other sun products, like sun OS, and solaris. And i did mean fad. When java first hit, and for the next couple of years, the job market was saturated with requests for it. It's nowhere near that level now.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 4:24 pm 
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DJSPIN80 wrote:
Kybo_Ren wrote:
Horrible product. Absolutely horrible.


The VS.NET 2003 isn't too bad at all, supposedly has 98% ANSI compatibility and better compiler options for optimizations. I hate to say this, but I'm pretty comfortable in GCC that I only VS.NET 2K3 for C# and that's about it.

I know. I like VS 2003 and the 2005 beta.
I was saying VS6 would have better been left unreleased.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:00 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Beomagi wrote:
The programs done at where i work, the project (remake of scorched earth) couple of friends and i did freshman year (was an early java revision, 1.1 or 1.2, so it MAY be better now) where the frame buffer memory wasn't freed, taking up 40 MB for a 640x480 display. install shield 10's Java installer (noticable slower).

There is a huge difference between Java 1.1/1.2 and 1.5 - remember, C was considered too slow for a good 10 years. It takes time for new compiler technology to advance. And of course, you were a freshman at the time probably working with something new - maybe you screwed up a little bit?

As far as being a fad - you're on crack, right? =)

Seriously...

FAD: A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze.

This certainly described Java in the beginning, but now....

1) There are more Java developers than any other language.
2) There is more lines of Java code than any other language but Cobol.
3) J2ME has the greatest market share of any platform/language in the embedded market.
4) J2EE has the greatest market share of any platform/language in the enterprise market.
5) Monster search results.... all regions, past 3 days

Java... 614
C++... 496
C#... 249
Perl... 237
Cobol... 67
PHP... 59
Python... 16
Fortran... 16
Lisp... 1 <what a damn shame>

6) JIT compilation is a big area of research in academia right now.
7) And 8 years is just too long for a fad...


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:01 am 
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I don't know about #2...it not how many lines of code you have, it's how you use them (and COBOL does NOT know how to use them) :)

My personal opinion is asm and C for low level systems programming, C++ and Java for everything else. Since I like systems programming, I mainly use C and then asm to optimize (when/if I feel it's worth it), but that's just me :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 7:29 am 
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Gotta love COBOL.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:56 am 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Cplusplus wrote:
I don't know about #2...it not how many lines of code you have, it's how you use them (and COBOL does NOT know how to use them) :)

My personal opinion is asm and C for low level systems programming, C++ and Java for everything else. Since I like systems programming, I mainly use C and then asm to optimize (when/if I feel it's worth it), but that's just me :)

I sort of have the same philosophy - only a little broader. I think these are the four languages worth knowing inside out...

C - system level
Java - application level (standard, web, enterprise, and most embedded)
SQL - database related things
Lisp - because some of that crazy AI stuff is just too damn hard w/o it!

And occasionally other specialized languages or frameworks, eg. prolog or jess for expert systems or matlab for math related work.

ASM is obviously extremely important, but not so much as a language these days - it's not like anyone is going to write a whole lot of code in it anymore, but in understanding computer hardware, compilers, etc. I'm looking forward to doing some work at that level again in the future.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 12:00 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Cplusplus wrote:
I don't know about #2...it not how many lines of code you have, it's how you use them (and COBOL does NOT know how to use them) :)

Perhaps, but COBOL is so far in the lead, it really doesn't matter. IIRC, at one point there were more lines of COBOL than all other languages combined.


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