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 Post subject: Eclipse IDE
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:41 pm 
I judge you GUILTY!
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I am teaching myself Java (1.4 since the book I have Thinking in Java doesn't cover 1.5) and it doesn't get into specifics about IDEs.

Does anyone have personal opinions on the Eclipse IDE?
I plan to install it later this week to write some Java code as I learn it.

So far I read the first two chapters, and I see how Java is different from C++. Some of the differences are unconventional for me, like how every Java object is like a C++ reference.

Garbage collection is cool, while it's interesting that the book says that the finalize command is not a useful function.

Initialization of fields and constructors is pretty different from C++. A lot more orderly I would say.

Anyhow, I'm looking for feedback on Eclipse and some thoughts on Java 5 (1.5)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:01 pm 
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Eclipse is a very sophisticated, yet easy to use IDE. A lot of people prefer Netbeans over Eclipse, but I'd take Eclipse over Netbeans anyday.

-WeAz


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse IDE
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:55 pm 
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Dude-X wrote:
So far I read the first two chapters, and I see how Java is different from C++. Some of the differences are unconventional for me, like how every Java object is like a C++ reference.

Hey Dude-X... long time. Still biking?

I can't remember accessing objects in C++ w/o the use of a reference. Hopefully this isn't something obvious - or has it been that long! :\

Dude-X wrote:
Initialization of fields and constructors is pretty different from C++. A lot more orderly I would say.

this("very",true);

Dude-X wrote:
Anyhow, I'm looking for feedback on Eclipse and some thoughts on Java 5 (1.5)

I am one of those people who prefer NetBeans to Eclipse. Prior to NetBeans 4, I would have said use either one, but I think the latest version is better.

Regarding Java 1.5, I would say learn Java 1.4 first and then you'll appreciate some of the new language features more and will have a better understanding of the 95% of Java code out there now.

You'll really appreciate the outboxing and generics features in 1.5 though. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:21 pm 
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Hey Gadget!
Good to hear from you again.

I haven't biked since last summer, but just the other week I got my bike repaired/tuned and now that the weather will be a bit warmer, I will start riding again.

Why do you prefer Netbeans over Eclipse?
Are there features in Eclipse that you like that you wish NetBeans has?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:14 pm 
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I suggest not bothering with an IDE unti you are comfortable with the language. Java is a lot more elegant then C++ but isn't quite as powerful.

yes, java objects are like dynamically creating objects in C++. There is no equivalent to this C++ line: MyObject obj;. All objects are created using the new keyword. You also do not have to worry about destructors. Another important difference is that in Java polymorphic behavoir is the default behavior for inheritance, and only single inheritance is allowed, although implementing interfaces sort of get around it.

There are also a bunch of little differences in the library, like in the standard java library there are no mutable primitive type wrapper classes, including String. That does get annoying sometimes.

The best part of the language is its documentation and neatness. C++ documentation plain sucks. If you haven't look up the java api specification at suns website. It is very nice and the best part is that you can document your own programs and generate the same documents with little effort using javadocs.

As for version 1.5.x, not many are moving to it yet. One reason is there are lots of new things added that cause compatibility problems. My personal reason for sticking with 1.4.2 is that I hate the new generics. It muddies up the language and makes it look like ugly C++ template code. It adds so much more code then just simply remembering to cast a Object in a container class to what it should be. it is ugly, unintuitive and adds more code to your programs. Yuck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:59 pm 
Bitchin' Fast 3D Z8000*
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Dude-X wrote:
Why do you prefer Netbeans over Eclipse?
Are there features in Eclipse that you like that you wish NetBeans has?


Good hearing from you too. I just moved a few minutes away from the beach in the LA area (from 'the OC'). I'll be biking my butt of this summer. :)

At the time, and this has been a while...

The NetBeans install was easier.... just a jar file. Eclipse required extra work which was a pita.

NetBeans had better Swing gui creation support; Eclipse is pushing SWT pretty hard which is something I'm not really all that in to.

NetBeans looked cooler despite the Swing/SWT arguements.

NetBeans has an auto update, which I believe has since been added to Eclipse.

The Eclipse plugin that I wanted to run didn't work. :\

NetBeans has really good J2ME phone support.

Fast forward to the present, and I believe they're pretty close features wise now.... we could make a matrix I suppose. Both are going to support the Java IDE plugin JSR, so new plugins should work in both of them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:00 pm 
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Dude-X wrote:
Are there features in Eclipse that you like that you wish NetBeans has?

Forgot this... none that I can think of offhand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:22 pm 
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pcloadletter wrote:
yes, java objects are like dynamically creating objects in C++. There is no equivalent to this C++ line: MyObject obj;.

Doesn't that just define an object in either language, not instantiate it?

pcloadletter wrote:
Another important difference is that in Java polymorphic behavoir is the default behavior for inheritance,

Isn't that also true in C++?

pcloadletter wrote:
and only single inheritance is allowed, although implementing interfaces sort of get around it.

Sort of? I can only think of one instance where they don't, which is a subtle hard to track down error occasionally made in C++.

pcloadletter wrote:
There are also a bunch of little differences in the library, like in the standard java library there are no mutable primitive type wrapper classes, including String. That does get annoying sometimes.

As you're probably aware, one of the uses for the wrapper classes is to allow primitive types to be included as Objects in the Collections framework (data structures). Think about using an Integer as a key with a HashMap, but the Integer is mutable. A method could change the value of an Integer already being used as a key in the HashMap - this would cause something to go wrong, I don't even want to think about it!

pcloadletter wrote:
The best part of the language is its documentation and neatness. C++ documentation plain sucks. If you haven't look up the java api specification at suns website. It is very nice and the best part is that you can document your own programs and generate the same documents with little effort using javadocs.

Agreed. =)

pcloadletter wrote:
As for version 1.5.x, not many are moving to it yet. One reason is there are lots of new things added that cause compatibility problems. My personal reason for sticking with 1.4.2 is that I hate the new generics. It muddies up the language and makes it look like ugly C++ template code. It adds so much more code then just simply remembering to cast a Object in a container class to what it should be. it is ugly, unintuitive and adds more code to your programs. Yuck.

Not many are moving yet? I don't know about that.... I've damn near got them convinced at work. =)

You don't have to use the generics... stick with castes if that is the way you like it. And remember, you get autoboxing with 1.5 - that is a nice feature.


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